Ultimates #9 Spoilers/Discussion

[G@ry]

Yeah I was wondering what the impulse was that he was talking about. It may be suicide.

[PhilUrich'sFlamingSword]

Personally I hope Reed doesn't die at the end of the arc. In fact I'm counting on it. After the death of the Red Skull and the Leader, and the fact that Loki will probably not attack earth/midgard again because of his truce with Thor, we NEED a villian that's gona stick around. The UU needs a recurring villain. I want Reed to interact with Ben and Sue at least one more time before he dies. And that shouldn't be crammed in at the end. I want that to happen in Humphries run. Reed created the Children, they might die but I think he'll still have First Knife.

What I think would be really cool would be if Reed left earth at the end of the arc with Hulk and First Knife. Reed finds a way to banish the bruce banner persona forever and together they could create the new Masters of Evil. The Maker, Hulk, First Knife, Second Sword, Death Child and something new. I want Reed to return with a new creation and I think a little team of baddies with him like Hulk and First Knife would be pretty awsome.

I don't think, even if he is 'defeated' (I think it's more likely to be some sort of detente after both sides take heavy losses, but he may just lose through some as of yet undisclosed means...remember, it's been mentioned several times that Tony has been 'working on something' in the background that could, potentially, help turn the tables) that something like a 'Masters of Evil'-style group would make sense as a next move considering how...well...expected and 'standard villainish' that would be. He's been shown to have been the smartest person on the planet at the age of twenty, and shown that his intelligence and calculating capacity is potentially limitless due to his powers being able to expand his brain (or some such comic book sciency explanation). If he is unsuccessful at this endeavor and somehow manages to escape death or capture, then presumably his next move would be equally, if not more so, ambitious than even what he's done so far. It's unlikely he'll go backwards, is what I'm saying, and that's how I think something like that would come across considering what he's done so far since his return from the Negative Zone.

You just be hatin'



I can't wait for the ramifications of the events in this issue.

One thing I don't get though...Reed said he was gonna show everybody the way to save the world. How? by killing everyone that's not the children?
I wonder if tony's tumor is coming back or something.

Perhaps, in his highly logical and completely 'big-picture' worldview, he believes he IS saving the world by taking a group of the best humanity has to offer and evolving them in a Darwin Bubble for a thousand years to create a race that epitomizes the potential of humanity. Since this 'new' race is descended from the humans they want to overthrow, it could be seen as the next logical step in evolution, rather than simple genocide and that's all. Of course it still IS genocide (Reed is responsible for, what, now? Hundreds of millions of civilian deaths alone? Good lord, and based on his comments about humanity needing to find a way to 'gracefully face its own extinction spiral' a few issues back to Sam Wilson, he's not nearly done), but Reed would no doubt argue that such wholesale death is more like a natural purging that was inevitable than your 'standard' genocide - he's just brought this potential 'golden era', as he sees it, about much more quickly. I'm not saying I agree with him (of course I don't...I'm not a sociopath)...by any eithical standard of our time what he's doing is the definition of a complete monster (one could argue easily and effectively that, despite the best of intentions to create a perfect utopia, or at least as close as one can come, and possibly actually BEING RIGHT about the world being a better place with a future of unlimited potential if the Children replaced humanity as the dominant species, his actions are still at least as heinous as Hitler's, and probably worse, since, to my knowledge, Hitler killed between six to eight million people in his camps; obviously horrific beyond words, but not approaching what has to be at least several hundred million people so far for Reed's death toll). I would, however, say that Reed's perceptions of the world are far more...sophisticated, and complex than any of ours, as normal, mortal human beings with a life-span of a hundred or so at the outside (and that's the best case scenario...statistics show us that most people who avoid a deadly disease earlier in life or some sort of fatal accident, being murdered, what have you, end up living to around eighty). Again, I'm in no way attempting to justify what Reed has done (although it certainly makes for compelling reading), but merely pointing out that his point of view is essentially alien to our ability to comprehend.

I was just thinking, we may see a confrontation between Johnny and Reed, because Reed still has part of his face ruined. I think he left it that way as a reminder about what happened. I think he could have easily developed a way to heal himself, it seems he healed his eyes and doesn't need glasses when that helmet is on him, if he healed that he could have healed his face.

Yup, despite his significant evolution over more than a thousand years, Reed still shows enough occasional flashes of petulance and bitterness that it's clear, despite being advanced beyond our ability to entirely comprehend, he has hardly risen entirely above the petty side of human emotions, shown by, among other examples, telling Thor to tell the Ultimates and other heroes of the Republic that he 'was right all along,' and other statements along those lines. He may honestly desire to create a near-utopia of the peak of human potential, but his intentions are clearly still thrown into question by his continued human weakness (despite his boast that they had created, essentially, mankind's perfect potential personified - I love alliteration, don't you?)

Yeah I was wondering what the impulse was that he was talking about. It may be suicide.

It could be suicide, but I think it's more likely the desirie for revenge, or perhaps something more vague, like the emotions that would allow one to crave such a thing. Perhaps Reed views it as a doubtless base, but still useful tendency, sort of like how anger motivates some people. Even emotions and tendencies we largely wish we didn't have generally have their uses, and the desire for revenge, in this instance, allowed a small child to make a suicide bomber out of himself and literally wipe out the entire United States power structure in one fell swoop, so it seems, at least thus far, that he was right about that. Reed may be a complete monster by any ethical standard of our times, but he may also classify as a magnificent bastard (I'm not sure if one could still qualify as this after crossing the moral event horizon hundreds of millions of times, but even if he does not, he's shown that a formerly heroic character who becomes a complete monster can still be potentially more compelling than the heroes who are trying to stop the extinction of their entire race, to the point where a part of me, and a part of at least some of you, no doubt, at least sort of hopes Reed will 'win,' or at least not lose, due to how compelling he is. Many times in fiction bad guys are portrayed as irredeemably heinous and vile, and the audience naturally roots for them to get their comuppence; while he may deserve it, Reed, at least to me, is the type of monster that I hope becomes a karma houdini, at least for a while, because there are so many more compelling yet horrible things you could have him do, so much potential for pushing even more boundaries and breaking even more 'tropes' in the future, that dying, however much deserved it may be, would be an unsatisfying conclusion, at least for the time being).

[PhilUrich'sFlamingSword]

Also, another comment (this one quite a bit shorter, but still, I think, very relevant): this issue was so mind-blowing in terms of its events and their impacts on the future, the fact that a character we all knew was uber-powerful proved himself more deadly than we ever could have guessed by turning himself into a fucking BLACK HOLE and destroying, in seconds, an entire army of beings who, only weeks before, annihilated an entire race of people that had, to that point, been considered freaking GODS has taken a backburner in the discussion because it wasn't even the most shocking thing to happen this issue. When I read that scene about halfway through the book where Zorn turned himself into a singularity that literally consumed the children (fulfilling the prediction of his brother Xorn, who accurately predicted exactly what Zorn would end up doing to his enemies, showing that what seems like a metaphor is much more terrifying when it literally proves to be true) I told myself, after figuratively picking my jaw up off the floor, that the event must have been what was referred to in the solicits and interviews as the moment where Hickman 'pushed things off a cliff.' A black hole opening up within Earth's atmosphere is kind of a big deal, and only something like...I don't know...slaughtering millions of Americans including the entire government in the blink of an eye, in the same issue could concievably top it so quickly. And yeah...that's exactly what happened. Talk about epic. I know I've used many here, but words still can't properly express what an amazing comic book this issue was, and this series has truly been. The single best thing that Marvel publishes right now, and I read a ton of books, as you can see from my signature below. Hoo boy. I need an aspirin.

[sage6paths]

It's the end of an era. Since last August, Jonathan Hickman and Esad Ribic have been wowing fans with their run on the Ultimates. While the story isn't over quite yet - neither is Hickman's tenure on the book - this is their last issue together, and Hickman's last issue alone. This issue takes the already epic People vs Children storyline and continues to turn up the heat!

Wow.

If I was in the business of writing one word reviews, that would be it. This was simply stunning on all accounts. As if this run hadn't been epic enough already, Hickman delivers the most action packed issue yet. This barely had less action than today's AvX VS #1, and that is a book that is dedicated ONLY to fight scenes (and it's a great read, by the way); Hickman manages to fit plot and story development into this book, as well.

While this was mostly action, Hickman demonstrated, yet again, his mastery of this book's characters. Tony and Thor were perfectly on point during their fight scene. He nailed the serious side of Fury and Hawkeye. And, of course, his Reed Richards is simply perfect. The calm, collected nature of Reed is extremely eerie, almost scary, as he stands firm after a devastating blow to the City. Zorn threw, what appeared to be, everything he had at Reed's Children, but the Maker is hardly phased. He continues to show his masterful manipulation of Hulk and follows through with his next phase: Death.

Blowing my mind for, unfortunately, the last time is, once again, Esad Ribic. I really don't know what else there is to say about the art in this book. The character's all look great, and the action is spectacular. The world that Ribic draws is stunning. I also love the liberties that he takes with page layouts and sound effects. He goes out with a beautiful explosion, and he will be greatly missed. Luke Ross will do a good job, I'm sure, but he has big shoes to fill. The Ultimates haven't looked this good in five years. I'm very upset that we won't be able to see a new Iron Man armor designed by Ribic, because I think he would do an awesome job on it.

The story, while not advancing a ton, continues to impress. The proverbial feces have hit the fan, and there's no going back. While the big action of the People vs the Children was obviously the focal point of the issue, I'm actually more looking forward to see what happens with Iron Man/Thor and Spider-Woman/Captain Britain. There's a lot going on in this book, and it's all going to come together soon. Hickman's plotting never fails to amaze me.

And, obviously, the ending is huge. Reed may have just killed the President!!

I look forward to seeing what, if anything, will change with Humphries as a cowriter. There is a lot to happen before Divided We Fall comes this summer. I really hope we get to see part, if not all, of the Fantastic Four confront Reed in the coming issues. But, as long as the book continues like this, I eagerly await whatever the Ultimates team throws our way!

Ratings:
Writing: 10/10
Story: 9/10
Art: 10/10
Overall: 10/10

Final Verdict:

Buy it. If you haven't read issues 1-8, buy them, too. Then buy this. You won't be upset.


PS: First Knife is back!!

I am still hoping Sam and Hickman write Reed Richards vs Zorn fight. Maker is powerful but I doubt even he could adapt to a singularity.

[Plawsky]

As per requested by sage6paths, my review has been put into the OP. You should read it, it's a great review.

I can't see how Ben or Sue could beat Reed, and frankly it would be kind of stupid if they did.

Although I don't mind if they show up.

We don't know how powerful Ben is. He doesn't even know, he said so in Ultimate Doom. Presumably between then and now, he's learned a bit more about his newfound abilities and might pop in and do some badass stuff. I'm not betting on it, but hey.

I have no idea how Ben or Sue could/will tie into the battle versus Reed, but I REALLY want to see it happen. If I had to guess, it would go like this...

Sue plays the emotion card, to no avail. Reed doesn't care about her love anymore. He, like in Doomsday, condescends to her and gives her a beat down. Ben stands up for his woman, powers up to levels we didn't yet know were possible, but gets smacked away by Reed. Then Johnny joins the fight as his Sister and Ben get back up, and the three throw everything they have at Reed. But he only laughs as he easily deflects them.

...crap. Reed can't lose!

Captain Britian is going to show power that none of us knew he had in him. The agent said that the cube might not contain him because his abilities lie beyond measurable levels. So She-Hulk's alright but Captain Britain's too powerful? Wait a sec. Just how powerful is he? I reckon in the next couple of issues he going to unleash this extraordinary power that has been hinted at. I'm calling it now just so you know.

Yeah, there's some major hubris in Agent Flumm. Captain Britain is going to kick some ass pretty soon.

This issue certainly made me officially sick of The People. WAY too overpowered.

How so? They barely even won the battle. Until Zorn pulled out all the stops, they were getting annihilated. Even with his major attack, the loss sustained by the City was devastating, but far from fatal.

[wyokid]

How so? They barely even won the battle. Until Zorn pulled out all the stops, they were getting annihilated. Even with his major attack, the loss sustained by the City was devastating, but far from fatal.

Xorn are the head and I find them boring and seeing how I seriously doubt we'll get any in depth look at the characters who live in Tian they represent The People in my eyes.

[Ebon Phantom]

Fantastic issue. Zorn was more freakin' awesome then I was expecting. The singularity he created a great and I hope it wasn't some one off thing that killed him.

[sage6paths]

Fantastic issue. Zorn was more freakin' awesome then I was expecting. The singularity he created a great and I hope it wasn't some one off thing that killed him.

I doubt he is dead but his fellow eternals might be. All hail Zorn.

[Lascoden]

God, I can't stop staring at the page of Zorn fully unleashed. Dude is ripping apart an entire freaking mountain, with magma and sh!&!

One more thing, I think that was maybe overlooked: What's going on with Tony? He had a nosebleed there at the end of his scene. Is his brain tumor back?
Also: Thor is a badass.

[Codah]

God, I can't stop staring at the page of Zorn fully unleashed. Dude is ripping apart an entire freaking mountain, with magma and sh!&!

One more thing, I think that was maybe overlooked: What's going on with Tony? He had a nosebleed there at the end of his scene. Is his brain tumor back?
Also: Thor is a badass.

Hickman is making a point of returning the Ultimates to their pre-Ultimates 3 glory so I'd assume his tumor is back but we'll have to wait and see. I really love Ultimate Tony. My heart will break if we lose him.

[wyokid]

Hickman is making a point of returning the Ultimates to their pre-Ultimates 3 glory so I'd assume his tumor is back but we'll have to wait and see. I really love Ultimate Tony. My heart will break if we lose him.

New Ultimates brought it back to being awesome and great.

[sage6paths]

Hickman is making a point of returning the Ultimates to their pre-Ultimates 3 glory so I'd assume his tumor is back but we'll have to wait and see. I really love Ultimate Tony. My heart will break if we lose him.

It might be because he is using a new suit and next issue he will be going into the City to find a fix or something.

[Newbie2434]

Another perfect 10/10 issue. What else is there to really say?

I'm still sad that these guys are leaving the book, but hopefully Hickman will eventually come back for another ultimate miniseries. Humphries has Galactus-size shoes to fill, and whilst I'm looking forward to his run with Luke Ross & Billy Tan, hopefully he'll try and persuade Ribic to return for the odd issue or two as well (+ I hope Dean White stays on board at least, but I suppose that's wishful thinking...)

[Wolverine12]

Awesome issue. So Reed is the new Apocalypse huh. Wonder when we get to see War, Famine and Pestilence. Great issue.

[JaggedFel]

IMO, Great Stuff. America Struck Hard and Reed struck harder plus Zorn literally all consuming. A true game changer. So i guess this leaves Agent Flumm running a military state.