The New 52: Is There A Miscommunication Between DC And Old Fans?

[Prisoner 6655321]

I guess I’m an older fan, I’ve certainly been reading before Flashpoint and I don’t think DC hates me. I do still think the reboot had just as many missteps as steps in the right direction. But the single most (and really the only truly, from my perspective,) offensive part of the reboot has to be, for me the de-ageing of pretty much everyone to make nearly everyone under 30. This ageism is really, honestly pretty offensive. The pre-Flashpoint DCU had heroes that ranged from seniors to children and they all fit into place. Changing this has done a disservice to everyone who enjoys the comics. What sort of message are you trying to send? How does this even make sense culturally?

For a lack of a more elegant explanation; people are staying younger longer nowadays. Lots of people don’t even move out of their parents homes until their mid to late 20’s, 30 years ago this was uncommon and a sign of a shut in. People live longer and do much more during this time. My dad is in his 60’s and drives around on the biggest bike Harley makes. While I’m sure there have always been some guys in their 60’s who do this sort of thing I couldn’t imagine my grandparents doing this or even wanting to try doing that during that time in their lives.

[Jim Thompson]

But the single most (and really the only truly, from my perspective,) offensive part of the reboot has to be, for me the de-ageing of pretty much everyone to make nearly everyone under 30. This ageism is really, honestly pretty offensive.

This sort of thing always makes me smile. A couple of generations who really did this sort of thing to their older generations routinely are now experiencing it themselves, from their children and grandchildren -- and lo and behold, they don't much care for it.

[Jim Thompson]

Characterization is nearly everything, and it's sort of interesting, to me, how the question in this thread characterizes DC workers, implying that if there has been a communication breakdown, it's the fault of DC, not the fans. Of course, nothing is ever that simple when it comes to communication; both sides have responsibilities for effective communication to happen -- but that rarely ever happens.

[Lady Obie]

Oracle only appeared in the Batman and the games. Babs has been the only Batgirl DC/Warner ever cared to promote, no wonder the other two are obscure.

We also had Babs as Oracle in the short-lived live-action Birds of Prey TV series from the early 2000's

IMHO Dina Meyer did an awesome job playing Babs and I wish that series could've had a longer run

[An Ear In The Fireplace]

What I thought they shoulda done was had two earths--one which stuck to the established continuity, but with the old heroes (Barry, Bruce,...) dying off, and the new heroes (Wally, Dick,...) taking their place and a third/fourth generation coming up (Bart, Damian); and another earth starting from the beginning telling the stories of Superman, Batman, and all from day one.

I thought the reason DC didn't do this was because they thought two earths would be too much for people. But then they come along with Earth 2, so apparently that wasn't the problem.

The great thing about having the two alternate earths would've been that they could go in completely new directions with the new generations of heroes on one earth--and if those books were contained to a limited number of titles, they could have kept better control over continuity. At the same time, an earth starting from the beginning would have been accessible for everyone and there wouldn't be any timeline conflicts as they try to shoehorn in a bunch of robins or batgirls. And all readers could feel respected--except for the ones who hate the multiverse concept.

[Lexrules]

We also had Babs as Oracle in the short-lived live-action Birds of Prey TV series from the early 2000's

IMHO Dina Meyer did an awesome job playing Babs and I wish that series could've had a longer run

She was the best part of that series. She really had the look and feel of Barbara.

[cgh]

I've been reading DC since the early '80s (admittedly I was very young) and I love the reboot. The old DCU was tired and done, the creative talent was in a straitjacket of convoluted continuity and the stories were really suffering for it. And in the end, the stories are what count.

The Guardian newspaper had an article recently where the writer mentioned that comics are one of the few mediums capable of consistently being mind-blowing. He was talking about European comics, which really are mind-blowing on a pretty consistent basis, but it still applies to the conservative world of American superhero comics as well. There was no room for mind-blowing creativity in the old DCU.

So contrary to the OP's assertion, I think DC has done a great service to all its fans. Now the stories offer way more bang for the buck. The past is past and dwelling on it is a big waste of time when there is an intriguing new universe to explore.

[Lexrules]

I've been reading DC since the early '80s (admittedly I was very young) and I love the reboot. The old DCU was tired and done, the creative talent was in a straitjacket of convoluted continuity and the stories were really suffering for it. And in the end, the stories are what count.

The Guardian newspaper had an article recently where the writer mentioned that comics are one of the few mediums capable of consistently being mind-blowing. He was talking about European comics, which really are mind-blowing on a pretty consistent basis, but it still applies to the conservative world of American superhero comics as well. There was no room for mind-blowing creativity in the old DCU.

So contrary to the OP's assertion, I think DC has done a great service to all its fans. Now the stories offer way more bang for the buck. The past is past and dwelling on it is a big waste of time when there is an intriguing new universe to explore.

To each his own dude and I'm happy you enjoy it but there are some like me who prefer the older look and feel of the character. I would have had zero problem if they actually gave some kind of ending to the old universe instead of doing a stupid Star Trek alternate timeline on us.

[Foofasaurus]

I don't think DC hates its fans. I think DC simply runs into the same problem all creative companies providing media entertainment eventually find themselves entangled with if they ever have cause to pay even a moment's attention to their product's consumers beyond looking at the sales figures:

You can never, no matter what you do, make every fan happy.

All one needs to do to understand this problem is read this exact thread and see the drastically differing opinions offered by fans -- many of whom all style themselves as "older" fans. DC could never hope to make X fan posting here (and the others like him/her) happy without risking upsetting Y fan (and the others like him/her) also posting in this thread. At the end of the day no matter what DC does, someone is going to be left in the position where they might walk out of their preferred comic shop shaking their head, wanting to know just what they ever did to make DC hate them so. And as they do so, it's just as likely the next person out the door is gleefully clutching their newest purchased title, wondering if they can even wait until they get home to crack it open and start reading.

DC has to make what they believe to be the best business decision -- the decision that will determine whether or not DC even continues as a company. That said, that's not all they could be doing. They can (and should) be doing their level best to package whatever decision they make (the new 52) and maintain the new product in such a way that not only will it draw the new fans in (or old returning fans) like they so desperately want, but also keep them, so we're not all left staring down another big shake-up in just a matter of a few years.

(For my part I love the new 52 and count it as being a huge part of what drew me back into comics after many years absence. That's not to say I like all the changes, but by and large I'm a happy consumer and fan, so DC hit their mark with me at least.)

[cgh]

To each his own dude and I'm happy you enjoy it but there are some like me who prefer the older look and feel of the character. I would have had zero problem if they actually gave some kind of ending to the old universe instead of doing a stupid Star Trek alternate timeline on us.

That is fair enough. The old universe sort of ended with a whimper, a "just another day" type of thing.

Then again, that's how it would probably happen in real life too. Maybe it already has! Maybe five minutes ago, you were a superspy with great hair who was escaping bad guys in China, defecting dissident in tow, when suddenly an Event took place deep underground in a North Korean bunker causing the universe to hit the reset button. Now you're sitting in your living room eating Doritos and brooding darkly over high collars and metallic-looking suits. You never know!

[MajorHoy]

We also had Babs as Oracle in the short-lived live-action Birds of Prey TV series from the early 2000's

IMHO Dina Meyer did an awesome job playing Babs and I wish that series could've had a longer run.

But I'm assuming DC / Warner Bros. would rather forget that series all together.

I thought it was fun, but my focus was more on Ashley Scott's Huntress. She wasn't the one I knew from the comic books, but she was definitely worth watching.

[Lady Obie]

I'm an older fan too (in my mid-40's).

I could say I hate reboots but I started reading DC Comics on the tail end of COIE in the fall of '85 so I literally got into DC comics in the eye of a big reboot storm!

I've seen many changes come and go in DC comics over the past 26 and change years

That's why I don't believe Dan Didio's "Dead means dead" statements at all.

It's all about the $$$.

Dead's only going to mean dead if dead equals more $$$. If alive equals more $$$ guess who's getting resurrected?

As for the relaunch, there were so many mix-ups leading to the relaunch and even during the 1st few months after it started it seemed like a probable long-term plan that was handled in a hasty slapdash manner

I didn't think DC miscommunicated with me personally. I think things were so mixed-up there was enough confusion for everybody, old readers and new

I know I could face the loss (thru cannon fodder deaths, limbo stints, etc.) of certain fave characters *points to avatar at left* and could have them be radically different when or if they return but I've seen so much change I've realized the best way to handle it is hitch up my surfboard and ride the wave.

So I'll be hanging in but I would not be surprised at all if we see another reboot within the next 2-5 years!

[Lexrules]

That is fair enough. The old universe sort of ended with a whimper, a "just another day" type of thing.

Then again, that's how it would probably happen in real life too. Maybe it already has! Maybe five minutes ago, you were a superspy with great hair who was escaping bad guys in China, defecting dissident in tow, when suddenly an Event took place deep underground in a North Korean bunker causing the universe to hit the reset button. Now you're sitting in your living room eating Doritos and brooding darkly over high collars and metallic-looking suits. You never know!

DAMN YOU NORTH KOREA.. Now I know who was really behind The DCnU Superman...

[Lady Obie]

But I'm assuming DC / Warner Bros. would rather forget that series all together.

I thought it was fun, but my focus was more on Ashley Scott's Huntress. She wasn't the one I knew from the comic books, but she was definitely worth watching.

Heh, that doesn't surprise me at all

I liked Babs because she reminded me the most of myself but really there weren't any actors or characters I hated on that show

Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if DC wants to forget that BoP but I was so glad when a DVD set of it came out in 2008 so that I can watch it again whenever I want to!

[Tandaemonium]

You can never, no matter what you do, make every fan happy.

Yes you can: Back To The Future