As for Batgirl, I dunno, she's always Batgirl in the tv shows and that never really draws readers into the books. Her Year One had good sales but they weren't mind numbingly great and that was back when comics were selling much higher thresholds. So, really gonna say it was more for the people who read comics in the 60's-80's and or those who knew the history that she had been crippled and was now back, a ploy to lure back lapsed fans regardless of age, I just feel most are older. It was the game of shock and awe, something the book the farther it gets from #1 will have to resort to other means for an entertaining book. When it has to leave the thematics of James Junior, Barbara Sr. and TKJ behind there's really not much there so it needs to shape up quick. However they didn't wipe TKJ completely I think because Gail Simone requested it, DC I think it was rumored that they wanted to just make her Batgirl and had her never shot but Gail refused to take it that far, I think. Both a blessing and a curse.
DC just needs to be more honest about things to fans and not be so cryptic. Brutal honesty though enraging can solve a lot of angst. That is unless they drop the need to be so cryptic and antagonizing their fans over things. Wouldn't that be great? If they were actually entertaining through and through and didn't do things that cause readers to get really upset?
It might also be that some writers are more willing to give up their power in one area, because they have power in another area. I note that Paul Levitz co-created Huntress and he was writing the LSH, when CoIE happened. He was already in an executive position at DC and I think he was willing to make those sacrifices for what he believed was a greater good. But other writers probably weren't as willing and fought for their concepts to survive.
But I also think that some people believe they can turn anything into gold. They don't care about dumping one profitable concept, because they think they can use their smarts to create another profitable property.
Gail Simone said both Cass and Steph were wanted to be used by a bunch of writers (Snyder etc wanted Cass to be in Batman #1 in the audience with them) but weren't allowed to due to them being locked in still waiting in the cache thing. I believe her on that. Stephanie apparently needed a breather after her Batgirl run, apparently, as Gail said.
Cass was said numerous times that she'll cameo or actually be in INC, and I'd leave it to Morrison to include any patches to the sudden disappearance of Brown and Cass. They recently said I think they're doing it so you can read Batman INC completely through and Flashpoint won't be a problem. We might get a reason for them being gone there.
Anyway the reason they are also not around is that the either the book that they're "attached" to will give them new streamlined origins and thus its impossible to keep them around or relies on a story-set up that is not yet truly in place (I think it might be a variation of Dustin Nguyen's Gotham's Boys and Girls Club idea, which would facilitate the need for Damian to be ready to form a team or falls into a team-like setting. That hasn't happened yet until probably after Owls and a good stretch of INC.
Brown exists and is Spoiler again. Cassandra Cain also exists. That's better than Wally or Donna. It's more WHERE are they and WERE they Batgirl even for 5 minutes. That's what people really wanna know.
A bit dickish for those who enjoy a progressive narrative like Dick mentioning he was Batman over in Nightwing but if she's slated for something that reintroduces her in a better way than what they've done to some characters, then I'm all for it.
And much as I grew up on and loved the pre-CoIE Multiverse, it sounds like you're still nursing a grudge (over 25 years later) that DC didn't cop-out and just revert to the status quo at the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths, which truly would have been a mistake. It would have put CoIE right up there with something like Secret Wars . . . a pure waste. For better or worse, CoIE shook things up and showed DC was willing to make some radical changes. At the time, it succeeeded in luring me back into becoming a regular comic book reader for a while (about ten years).
It seems like you want me to alter my memories and talk about CoIE from a position informed by everything that happened after that--rather than from the position of what I knew at the time. But I'm trying to draw parallels between my confusion at the time and the confusion of readers now, who don't have the benefit of looking back on Flashpoint ten years from now.
The point being that what we think should happen and what does happen are two different things. I think if CoIE had been completely uncompromising, then we would be talking about it in very different terms now. The same with Flashpoint. In both instances, DC was uncompromising for some parts of its universe but completely compromising for other parts of its universe. And sometimes the why of that doesn't make sense--especially when we see all these loopholes in the new reality.
Also, there may be some miscommunication between DC and old fans but there is likewise plently of misconceptions on the part of fans as well. It's really a two way street in my opinion anyway.
Last edited by JasonTodd428; 05-03-2012 at 11:35 AM.
Characters come and go, revamped and revisited. But as long as you enjoyed them, remember them and continue to appreciate them, then that character, your hero or heroine, will always exist.
In today's fast paced world, this is probably correct. No one wants to wait, they want it now and not later.Originally Posted by glennism
Last edited by Mat001; 05-03-2012 at 12:30 PM.
However, at a con, a fan asked if Stephanie would reappear any time soon. And the editor's reply: "Nope." I think Cass and Steph exist in the same way Donna, Wally, and plenty of others exist: the characters can be used when the day comes when the folks in charge think these are worthy characters and thus give the go-ahead to use them. This will probably happen when the current leadership leaves DC and new editors who grew up with these characters take charge.Brown exists and is Spoiler again. Cassandra Cain also exists. That's better than Wally or Donna. It's more WHERE are they and WERE they Batgirl even for 5 minutes. That's what people really wanna know.
When the time is right (narrative-wise) for these characters to come back into play, they will, and I would not be surprised if their reintroduction is handled by the same folks who supervised their shelving.
Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
I despair of engaging in discussions with those who lack imagination.
And keep Didio away from conventions.
And yeah, I do believe that they had a conscious plan all along to take certain characters off the table who might detract from the characters they wanted to return or bring back to their roots. This was probably the case before the reboot.
Seriously, Stephanie Brown had her own book for two years, and now the editors admit the fans won't be seeing her again any time soon.
I just wish they would've shelved the Flash rogues and given him new villains. A super-powered Captain Cold just seems...redundant.
Last edited by PennyDreadful; 05-03-2012 at 01:07 PM.