The New 52: Is There A Miscommunication Between DC And Old Fans?

[Buried Alien]

I watched Superfriends and I honestly don't remember if Barry's identity was a big deal.

The name "Barry Allen" never came up in SUPERFRIENDS. However, the series' Flash was clearly a serious, scientific type...which signifies Barry rather than Wally.

Moreover, SUPERFRIENDS was more than a decade before COIE, so nobody else was going to be the Flash.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[An Ear In The Fireplace]

Again, I don't think that being fans has a whole lot to do with the decisions by DC at the top. For one thing, I don't believe Dan DiDio was ever a big comics fan (he says he was now to give himself cred at conventions--Paul Levitz on the other hand was a huge comics fan, and all the previous continuity happened under his leadership).

And the fan premise would predict that the Teen Titans would have been protected, because Teen Titans were also part of the Silver Age--yet the Teen Titans have been screwed.

It's comics fans who are having the greatest problem with all of this. If the changes are being made for fans, then you would think fans would understand and see how the universe all makes sense. In the past, fans have been able to understand strange twists in continuity which leave the layperson confounded.

When the post-Flashpoint universe was first announced I thought it was supposed to tie in with the Green Lantern movie. And maybe that was part of their thinking. If GL had been this big billion dollar blockbuster that they were hoping for, then I think building the DC empire around that would have made sense. But the movie didn't give them the launch pad that they were hoping for.

If it's all about tying in with the characters that people know from the movies and television, then some decisions make sense, but not all of them. Do new readers see a connection between the characters in the comics and the characters in other media?

[MajorHoy]

If it's all about tying in with the characters that people know from the movies and television, then some decisions make sense, but not all of them. Do new readers see a connection between the characters in the comics and the characters in other media?

And yet, how many posts have you seen where people assume what's shown on shows like Smallville reflect the actual continuity in comic books if they haven't been long-time readers of the comic books?

[shark]

The name "Barry Allen" never came up in SUPERFRIENDS. However, the series' Flash was clearly a serious, scientific type...which signifies Barry rather than Wally.

Moreover, SUPERFRIENDS was more than a decade before COIE, so nobody else was going to be the Flash.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Flash had an animated series?

[Buried Alien]

Flash had an animated series?

In fact, he did. During the late 1960s, the Flash and Kid Flash appeared in a series of animated shorts. This was the first-ever (and thus far, only) animated series to star Flash as the title character.

Obviously, in that era, Flash was Barry Allen and Kid Flash was Wally West.

Here's its opening sequence:



Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Ntikrst]

Who's the "us"? I certainly don't think DC folks "hate" anyone. And I think they realize they need people to enjoy and buy their product if the want to continue doing what they do.

I certainly get the impression that DC hates its older fans. There is a great amount of re-hash in the Nu52, from Barry and Hal returning, to Barbara getting her legs back, and Lois and Clark getting to know each other, again. DC would have an easier time recycling old ideas if there weren't old fans around pointing out how creatively bankrupt this practice is of playing it safe.

I'm a 30 year vet, and I welcome change, the titles I enjoy the most are those take chances with new ideas/execution.

[MajorHoy]

I certainly get the impression that DC hates its older fans.

But it doesn't seem like they're going out of their way to destroy everything older fans love just to annoy us.

As I and others have said, "hate" is too strong / harsh a term.

It may seem like they may not value us the same way they do newer, younger potential fans. But, unfortunately, that's a business decision / calculation. TV networks do the same thing, chasing the viewer demographics that seem to bring in the most money from advertisers. Years ago, CBS TV shows seemed to be watched by mostly senior citizens, who weren't as profitable an audience, so the network tried to ditch a lot of those shows and copy more successful shows that seemed to be watched by a younger demographic. The effort failed, those shows tanked, and CBS had to try and woo back a bunch of older but loyal viewers they had alienated without winning the new demographic they had been aiming for.

And the question is also skewed by many of the rants / complaints that seem to just fester on forums like this. Do all those complainers really represent the total customer base DC has, or are there a lot of people who aren't saying as much because they aren't complaining?

[Mat001]

They don't hate us. Those who believe so are cracked in the head. Brutally honest, but it is true.

[Buried Alien]

They don't hate us. Those who believe so are cracked in the head. Brutally honest, but it is true.

There is indeed little rational cause to hate the people whose purchase of your products keeps your livelihood afloat.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who work at DC get *annoyed* at some fans for plying them with unrealistic expectations and demands, however.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Flyattractor]

They don't hate us. Those who believe so are cracked in the head. Brutally honest, but it is true.

Yes. Thats true. They would have to actually know that we EXIST before they could hate us.

[PennyDreadful]

Passion can lead to irrational behavior in some cases.

One thing I've come to accept as a comic fan is that some characters that I love dearly are going to disappear sometimes. Sometimes the character I like just has a book that doesn't sell, and it has to go away. That's just business.

I can sympathize with the Wally and Donna fans, but the truth is they weren't making money. Something had to be done.

Wonder Woman wasn't either, and she wasn't sidelined. Donna was never a solo star of a team book; she was a team player. So I don't think you can say she wasn't a moneymaker. And Wally headlined his own series for two decades.

I think there's a simpler reason: DC's brain trust just doesn't like certain characters. You can search for reasons why they were sidelined or put in limbo. I think it comes down to their preferences are favorites. They love the Bronze Age heroes they grew up with, like Barbara Gordon and Barry Allen. Judging from responses in this thread, some of the people who really love the reboot are old school, pre-COIE comic book fans. I'm sure they hoped to goose sales by attracting these longtime fans.

On the other hand, they do not care for the legacy characters so much and they can take or leave the NTT gang. Truth to tell, they blew smoke about a lot of Flash-related projects that never got off the ground, but this was before the reboot. So fans' reaction was understandable. They had been strung along for a while. TPTB should've have been honest about their intentions from the beginning: "These other guys aren't important to us. Sorry. Enjoy the back issues." There was no "passion" or "irrational behavior" Just some fans irate because editorial was not entirely honest with them.

Basically, it's about editorial preferences. I think most fans would love to see Barry AND Wally AND Jay AND Bart. But some characters are disliked by DC editorial. Again, be honest and admit you just don't like them instead of wasting fans' time. I'd add Cass Cain and Stephanie Brown to that list. With all the Bat-books, there would surely be room for them, but Steph is benched (after headlining her own series) and Cass remains in limbo.

In the end, the reboot was by and for people who missed the Bronze Age and loathed what came after COIE. However, the current leadership won't be in charge forever. The minute Didio, Lee, and Johns are gone, you'll see the return of Donna, Wally, Cass, Steph, Connor Hawke, and a bunch of other editorial un-favorites.

[shark]

In fact, he did. During the late 1960s, the Flash and Kid Flash appeared in a series of animated shorts. This was the first-ever (and thus far, only) animated series to star Flash as the title character.

Obviously, in that era, Flash was Barry Allen and Kid Flash was Wally West.

Here's its opening sequence:



Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

The more you know. I thought it was part of the Super Friends cartoons as a kid.

[Ntikrst]

There is indeed little rational cause to hate the people whose purchase of your products keeps your livelihood afloat.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who work at DC don't get *annoyed* at some fans for plying them with unrealistic expectations and demands, however.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Here let me illustrate my point a little better, we seem to be suffering a miscommunication ourselves.

I think DC hates older readers who complain about their practice of rehashing old storylines, I think DC hates older readers who are more likely to be critical of their projects and less likely to make purchases based on Brand Loyalty. I think DC would be very content to have a complete turn-over of fans every 5 years, as long as the didn't suffer any net loss in units sold.

Younger fans and die hards who are beholden to the Brand don't complain as much, don't support creator's rights and are less likely to point out rehashed storylines as being creatively bankrupt. Generally "older fans" are smarter consumers, and anyone who thinks that Corporations don't prefer uninformed consumers over informed ones are seriously cracked in the head.

Brutally honest, but it's true.

[glennsim]

Here let me illustrate my point a little better, we seem to be suffering a miscommunication ourselves.

I think DC hates older readers who complain about their practice of rehashing old storylines, I think DC hates older readers who are more likely to be critical of their projects and less likely to make purchases based on Brand Loyalty. I think DC would be very content to have a complete turn-over of fans every 5 years, as long as the didn't suffer any net loss in units sold.

Younger fans and die hards who are beholden to the Brand don't complain as much, don't support creator's rights and are less likely to point out rehashed storylines as being creatively bankrupt. Generally "older fans" are smarter consumers, and anyone who thinks that Corporations don't prefer uninformed consumers over informed ones are seriously cracked in the head.

Brutally honest, but it's true.

Well, by that definition, I'm sure every company hates anybody who publically complains about their product.

[Shurato2099]

I don't feel that DC hates me so much as, like certain TV stations did in pursuit of new demographics, I am part of an audience that has been 'fired' in favor of the new readers. Two things bug me about the DCnU: it continues to slide down the grimdark slope by making everyone mistrust metahumans, everything feels like an X-book now and not in a good way. The other is that they didn't just come out and say why certain things were changed: want to get rid of most of the NTT stuff because there's just no room left, fine, but be up front with it.