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  1. #16
    Season 2 of Blue Estate CTpitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reginleif View Post
    I have never read Kingdom Come, Infinite Crisis and most other pre-Flashpoint essentials, or anything pre-Flashpoint at all actually. DC understands that I am the future, and that my race, the New 52ers are the next generation in the industry.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member FIFTY-TWO (52)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Lange View Post
    When the New 52 started, many old fans believed this was a sign that DC Comics HATES their old fans. This perception has come up time and time again with things like Earth-2, the fate of Wally West and Donna Troy, etc.

    My question is what has made this perception so prevalent? Has DC bringing back some old ideas (The Multiverse, Earth-2 being home to the Justice Society, Barbara Gordon as Batgirl) fueled your belief, or has it caused you to re-think your position? Has DC done enough to explain their position to you as to why they had to make these changes?

    I will admit that, overall, I have loved the New 52, but I have some problem with the handling of a few things so far. One thing I've been having a problem with is the lack of understand their old readers. I want to hear how this can be fixed without having to blow up the New 52, or starting a new line of comics.

    Let's hear what you have to say.
    DC has been through this before with their fans. It's just that back in 1987 there was no internet for people to come on and whine for months on end.
    The people who loved Jay and Alan saw their heroes give way to Barry and Hal who gave way to Wally and Kyle, and now they're kinda coming full circle. Barry and Hal have experienced a resurgence in their popularity, and Jay and Alan are going to be featured in Earth 2. Kyle's still around, but it's the Wally fans who have been left out in the cold.
    That's just he business of it, really.
    "A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Moore was right about that, and echoing what many other fans were thinking at the time (and in all the years since). I don't know if COIE was actually necessary in the first place, but even if you accept that it was, it cut out much more than was strictly necessary or useful (proof: much of what was thrown out by COIE was eventually reintroduced in some form).

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    It think Crisis started out of misconception that the Multiverse was the main thing holding DC back. I'd say it was also a perception of a lack of talent at DC at that time that caused a lot of those problems sales wise.
    While Crisis did work in the short term, it biggest drawback was the lack of any plan to follow it. Then, as the years went on, writers from the the era of Infinite Earths came to DC and wanted to play with the toys that were taken away from them when they were younger.
    I see that happening to the New 52 at several years down the road. My hope is DC has a plan for this, but are playing close right now to let the New 52 go about it's merry way.

  4. #19
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
    I think that the fact they didn't do a complete hard-reboot of everything shows they very much take into consideration the "older" fans and shows respect to the important storylines that have come before.

    There was a post in the JL #8 thread that said it very well:
    I think they would have done older fans a favor by just destroying the Old DC Universe and ending in a blaze of glory then Rebooting from scratch on a New Earth in a Alternate Universe. I know I would have been happier to know that the characters I loved went out in a blaze of glory rather then having everything taken away, change personalities and put them into horrible metal V neck suits.
    Last edited by Lexrules; 04-25-2012 at 12:18 PM.

  5. #20
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    I think they would have done older fans a favor by just destroying the Old DC Universe and all the characters end all the story lines and Rebooting from scratch. I know I would have been happier to know that the characters I loved went out in a blaze of glory rather then having everything taken away from them and out put into horrible V neck suits.
    You know, the funny thing about FLASHPOINT and the New 52 is that essentially, the old timeline ended (for everybody other than Barry Allen) on more or less a mundane day in the lives of the people of the DCU. This time, time wasn't rebooted by a universe-wide (or multiverse-wide) war against a cosmic tyrant or madman that they all knew they took part in, but just ended without their knowledge on a relatively ordinary day of their previous lives.

    I mean, one moment, Superman is taking to the air again after several months of grounding himself to soul-search and the next minute, he's (literally) a brand new man, and he has no idea how much everything has changed.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Last edited by Buried Alien; 04-25-2012 at 12:26 PM.
    faze (v.): to cause to be disturbed or disconcerted; to stun

    phase (n.):
    a stage in a process of change or development

    Get it right, people.

  6. #21
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    You know, the funny thing about FLASHPOINT and the New 52 is that essentially, the old timeline ended (for everybody other than Barry Allen) on more or less a mundane day in the lives of the people of the DCU. This time, time wasn't rebooted by a universe-wide (or multiverse-wide) war against a cosmic tyrant or madman that they all knew they took part in, but just ended without their knowledge on an relative ordinary day of their previous lives.

    I mean, one moment, Superman is taking to the air again after several months of grounding himself to soul-search and the next minute, he's (literally) a brand new man, and he has no idea how much everything has changed.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    One thing is good, if they decide to have him remember that is going to be one hell of a story. Trinity War I believe is going to deal with this since The Phantom Stranger is against what happened and was looking for a way to put it back.

  7. #22
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIFTY-TWO (52) View Post
    DC has been through this before with their fans. It's just that back in 1987 there was no internet for people to come on and whine for months on end.
    The people who loved Jay and Alan saw their heroes give way to Barry and Hal who gave way to Wally and Kyle, and now they're kinda coming full circle. Barry and Hal have experienced a resurgence in their popularity, and Jay and Alan are going to be featured in Earth 2. Kyle's still around, but it's the Wally fans who have been left out in the cold.
    That's just he business of it, really.
    One other thing, though, about fans of Jay and Alan vs. fans of Barry and Hal: back in the Golden Age, sales had been falling, so books with Jay and Alan were already pretty much gone by the time they introduced Barry. The readers back then were probably more kids than adults, so Jay and Alan were probably already put aside by many of their fans as "childish things" they no longer held onto (except for memories) as they became adults.

    And Jay and Alan weren't killed off the way Barry and Hal were.

  8. #23
    Veteran Member Fate's Faith's Avatar
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    I've never believed DC hated their old fans. After all, I technically am one since I was reading before Crisis. Its been an easy jumping on point for me, characters I recognize, stories I didn't read don't matter and best of all, I've been reading some great stories. I do think some old fans believe DC does hate them which I say more power to you. I think self delusion is very entertaining especially when its not me.

    Hmm, I'm starting to think DC loves me since the new 52 seems talored to me

  9. #24
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fate's Faith View Post
    I've never believed DC hated their old fans. After all, I technically am one since I was reading before Crisis. Its been an easy jumping on point for me, characters I recognize, stories I didn't read don't matter and best of all, I've been reading some great stories. I do think some old fans believe DC does hate them which I say more power to you. I think self delusion is very entertaining especially when its not me.

    Hmm, I'm starting to think DC loves me since the new 52 seems talored to me
    What do you like about it Fate?

  10. #25
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fate's Faith View Post
    I've never believed DC hated their old fans.
    Yea, it's sheer hyperbole to claim that a comic company *hates* its fans. Unless one is in the business of selling Nazi or Ku Klux Klan literature, hate is an *awfully* unprofitable concept.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    faze (v.): to cause to be disturbed or disconcerted; to stun

    phase (n.):
    a stage in a process of change or development

    Get it right, people.

  11. #26
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Yea, it's sheer hyperbole to claim that a comic company *hates* its fans. Unless one is in the business of selling Nazi or Ku Klux Klan literature, hate is an *awfully* unprofitable concept.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I don't think they hate us, I just feel they think they don't need us to survive.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    I don't think they hate us, I just feel they think they don't need us to survive.
    Who's the "us"? I certainly don't think DC folks "hate" anyone. And I think they realize they need people to enjoy and buy their product if the want to continue doing what they do.
    Be careful when speaking. You create the world around you with your words.

  13. #28
    Member JoeP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fate's Faith View Post
    I've never believed DC hated their old fans. After all, I technically am one since I was reading before Crisis. Its been an easy jumping on point for me, characters I recognize, stories I didn't read don't matter and best of all, I've been reading some great stories. I do think some old fans believe DC does hate them which I say more power to you. I think self delusion is very entertaining especially when its not me.

    Hmm, I'm starting to think DC loves me since the new 52 seems talored to me
    Same here. Until the New 52, I hadn't collected comics since the early 90's and even then I didn't stick with it for too long. At most I had maybe a dozen issues and a couple of TPBs. But I've always had an interest in comic book characters and the whole comic book culture - the art, the merchandise, etc. I'm a die hard Superman fan. However, since last August/September, I've been collecting Action, Superman, JL, and Batman every month, with plans to get the collected issues of Green Lantern, The Flash, Batman and Robin, and Aquaman when they're out later this year. I've even checked out Marvel, having followed Ultimate Comics Spider-Man since Miles Morales became the new Spidey, and I've picked up the first arcs of Wolverine & The X-Men and Uncanny X-Men. Though the double shipping of those titles have turned me off, but I may continue with them in trades. And I'm also following Saga, and trying to get caught up with American Vampire.

    My point being, I was DC's target with the New 52, and I couldn't be happier. Well done, DC. It's worked.
    Last edited by JoeP; 04-25-2012 at 12:53 PM. Reason: My poor grammar.

  14. #29
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    And Jay and Alan weren't killed off the way Barry and Hal were.
    Four years passed between Barry's premiere as the Flash and Jay's return in a substantial way (Jay made a cameo appearance in the very first panel of SHOWCASE # 4 as a character in a comic book in Barry's hands), and Alan's return would come two years later. Wally's fans are running out of patience, but they forget that Wally has only been "missing" for a little over six months. I trust that he will return, but that return might not be on the immediate horizon. I imagine his return occurring within a timeframe of three to five years.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    faze (v.): to cause to be disturbed or disconcerted; to stun

    phase (n.):
    a stage in a process of change or development

    Get it right, people.

  15. #30
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Reasonable comic fans don't think this. The ones who have a sense of fan entitlement, on the other hand, believe that to be the case. More than fan entitlement, it's fan ownership where the fan believes that they are always right and the creators are wrong for not bowing down to their wishes.

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