The New 52: Is There A Miscommunication Between DC And Old Fans?

[Bill Lange]

When the New 52 started, many old fans believed this was a sign that DC Comics HATES their old fans. This perception has come up time and time again with things like Earth-2, the fate of Wally West and Donna Troy, etc.

My question is what has made this perception so prevalent? Has DC bringing back some old ideas (The Multiverse, Earth-2 being home to the Justice Society, Barbara Gordon as Batgirl) fueled your belief, or has it caused you to re-think your position? Has DC done enough to explain their position to you as to why they had to make these changes?

I will admit that, overall, I have loved the New 52, but I have some problem with the handling of a few things so far. One thing I've been having a problem with is the lack of understand their old readers. I want to hear how this can be fixed without having to blow up the New 52, or starting a new line of comics.

Let's hear what you have to say.

[Reginleif]

I have never read Kingdom Come, Infinite Crisis and most other pre-Flashpoint essentials, or anything pre-Flashpoint at all actually. DC understands that I am the future, and that my race, the New 52ers are the next generation in the industry.

[Bill Lange]

I have never read Kingdom Come, Infinite Crisis and most other pre-Flashpoint essentials, or anything pre-Flashpoint at all actually. DC understands that I am the future, and that my race, the New 52ers are the next generation in the industry.

Which is exactly what the New 52 was setup to do; give a new generation of readers a jumping on point without having to be bogged down with all the history.

Still, I remember Alan Moore once referred to Crisis On Infinite Earths as "throwing the baby out with the bath water". Is there a place for these old stories in the 52 Multiverse, or do we stay committed to new directions based on old concepts? Does bringing up these old concept anger older fans more then if they just left them alone?

[Buried Alien]

W

Still, I remember Alan Moore once referred to Crisis On Infinite Earths as "throwing the baby out with the bath water".

Moore was right about that, and echoing what many other fans were thinking at the time (and in all the years since). I don't know if COIE was actually necessary in the first place, but even if you accept that it was, it cut out much more than was strictly necessary or useful (proof: much of what was thrown out by COIE was eventually reintroduced in some form).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Bill Lange]

Moore was right about that, and echoing what many other fans were thinking at the time (and in all the years since). I don't know if COIE was actually necessary in the first place, but even if you accept that it was, it cut out much more than was strictly necessary or useful (proof: much of what was thrown out by COIE was eventually reintroduced in some form).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

It think Crisis started out of misconception that the Multiverse was the main thing holding DC back. I'd say it was also a perception of a lack of talent at DC at that time that caused a lot of those problems sales wise.
While Crisis did work in the short term, it biggest drawback was the lack of any plan to follow it. Then, as the years went on, writers from the the era of Infinite Earths came to DC and wanted to play with the toys that were taken away from them when they were younger.
I see that happening to the New 52 at several years down the road. My hope is DC has a plan for this, but are playing close right now to let the New 52 go about it's merry way.

[Reginleif]

Which is exactly what the New 52 was setup to do; give a new generation of readers a jumping on point without having to be bogged down with all the history.

Still, I remember Alan Moore once referred to Crisis On Infinite Earths as "throwing the baby out with the bath water". Is there a place for these old stories in the 52 Multiverse, or do we stay committed to new directions based on old concepts? Does bringing up these old concept anger older fans more then if they just left them alone?

they still have many 'core' stories like Killing Joke and the Death of Superman around (none of which I have read, or intend too). The idea of keeping some elements makes sense, especailly considering these titles are avaliable in cheap collected editions that are always in print.

[CTpitch]

I have never read Kingdom Come, Infinite Crisis and most other pre-Flashpoint essentials, or anything pre-Flashpoint at all actually. DC understands that I am the future, and that my race, the New 52ers are the next generation in the industry.

[wiski]

I have never read Kingdom Come, Infinite Crisis and most other pre-Flashpoint essentials, or anything pre-Flashpoint at all actually. DC understands that I am the future, and that my race, the New 52ers are the next generation in the industry.

This fits with the example of my cousin, who was all Marvel all the time since we were kids. He is currently getting sick of Marvel shenanigans and is excited to have an easy point of entry into DC books.

[Lexrules]

I have never read Kingdom Come, Infinite Crisis and most other pre-Flashpoint essentials, or anything pre-Flashpoint at all actually. DC understands that I am the future, and that my race, the New 52ers are the next generation in the industry.

Man. Not telling you what to do but I'm telling you what to do, Go out and read those stories and learn the history of the most historic comic book company of them all. You are only hurting yourself by not doing so.

[Buried Alien]

When the New 52 started, many old fans believed this was a sign that DC Comics HATES their old fans. This perception has come up time and time again with things like Earth-2, the fate of Wally West and Donna Troy, etc.

My question is what has made this perception so prevalent? Has DC bringing back some old ideas (The Multiverse, Earth-2 being home to the Justice Society, Barbara Gordon as Batgirl) fueled your belief, or has it caused you to re-think your position? Has DC done enough to explain their position to you as to why they had to make these changes?

I will admit that, overall, I have loved the New 52, but I have some problem with the handling of a few things so far. One thing I've been having a problem with is the lack of understand their old readers. I want to hear how this can be fixed without having to blow up the New 52, or starting a new line of comics.

Let's hear what you have to say.

Depends on *how* old. For even OLDER fans (like myself), having Barry Allen back as Flash, Hal Jordan back as the main GL, Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl, etc., the New 52 feels almost like a gift.

I say "almost" because gifts don't come with a price to the recipient, but losing Wally West and others was a part of the deal of receiving this "gift."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Yttrium]

Depends on *how* old. For even OLDER fans (like myself), having Barry Allen back as Flash, Hal Jordan back as the main GL, Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl, etc., the New 52 feels almost like a gift.

Yeah, I'm an older fan, and DC clearly doesn't hate me. The Legion of Super-Heroes is back to being the team I enjoy. Earth 2 Huntress is back. Etc. Things are looking up, as far as I'm concerned.

[Outside_85]

I dont think DC hates their fans, its just that so many of their moves strike particularly sore places with certain people...the people who were not enamored of the Pre-Crisis era of DC, either because they weren't reading back then or simply because they really liked what came after it. Like not everyone who likes Flash, likes to have Barry back in the costume and Wally in a void. It's kinda like they decided that 1980 to around 2000 was to be forgotten as much as possible, with certain exceptions, such as Kyle Rayner.
Wally especially is in a strange place because of DC's constant stonewalling when asked at cons regarding his whereabouts, which kinda looks like DC is trying to force Wally fans to switch over to Barry fans out of desperation for some flash action to their tastes. ("You'll only get Barry, so live with it. When Wally isnt a treat to his position as Flash, then you can have him back." Or something like that)

[Bill Lange]

Depends on *how* old. For even OLDER fans (like myself), having Barry Allen back as Flash, Hal Jordan back as the main GL, Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl, etc., the New 52 feels almost like a gift.

I say "almost" because gifts don't come with a price to the recipient, but losing Wally West and others was a part of the deal of receiving this "gift."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I agree with you, personally, but there are people I know that are upset by that, even when they have been mad for years that Wally took Barry's place. Would you agree that some people consider a return to the past (Pre-Crisis to us "old" guys) is the only way to go? Is that insulting to new readers like Reginleif? Is it irrational to believe that DC could turn back the clock that far back?

[Buried Alien]

I agree with you, personally, but there are people I know that are upset by that, even when they have been mad for years that Wally took Barry's place. Would you agree that some people consider a return to the past (Pre-Crisis to us "old" guys) is the only way to go? Is that insulting to new readers like Reginleif? Is it irrational to believe that DC could turn back the clock that far back?

As a practical matter, I don't think DC can...not at this point. I think the last possible chance they had to credibly do that would have been at the end of the 1980s (before newer characters such as Tim Drake, Wally West as the Flash, Kyle Rayner, and many, many others, became entrenched as new fan favorites). Heck, even *I* wouldn't want DC to go that far. As much as my first love is the Bronze Age DCU, I wouldn't want to give up many of the cool developments DC has made since then.

The New 52 is as close as it's going to get.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[AdamYJ]

Depends on *how* old. For even OLDER fans (like myself), having Barry Allen back as Flash, Hal Jordan back as the main GL, Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl, etc., the New 52 feels almost like a gift.

I say "almost" because gifts don't come with a price to the recipient, but losing Wally West and others was a part of the deal of receiving this "gift."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

There are the older heroes, sure. But it's not really written in the same style as they used to be written in. I've been kind of disenchanted with super-heroes lately but I've also gone back and started reading stuff from the '70s and '80s. Man is that old stuff great. I wasn't even around for it and I miss the old style.