Re: Black Widow and Joss Whedon

[brettc1]

I just got back from a premiere screening (in Australia) and I just want to second all of this. It is indeed as good as he says.

Interestingly, Black Widow got some of the best scenes in the movie; not from an action standpoint - though she had plenty of those too - but from an acting standpoint.

One thing though Brett: don't try arguing that the success of another female action hero will auger well for Wonder Woman's chances at a movie. I tried that on a thread about The Hunger Games and it didn't end well.

I think the point I am making is this - this is not a movie where the guys do all the heavy lifting and the girl sits back or needs rescuing. Widow is not a second stringer or a sidekick or a support character. Scarlett Johansonn's performace as Widow as a hero of equal status is clever and completely credible.

And that's another great thing - there is never a "You're just a girl" moment. Not once can I recall any of the heroes in the movie ever questioning her ability based on gender. The issue simply never arises. I had not even thought about it til I was typing this but Widow is simply a member of the team who has a unique skill set. She does indeed get a scene early on where she is in femme fatale mode but aside from that she is a hero, not a girl-hero.

And oh man - she does indeed get some great scenes. I dont want to spoil for our Amercian friends, but yeah, you are going to love it. If this were a Justice League movie and Wonder Woman got scenes this good this forum would be going nuts!

PS Its not just Widow either representing for the women. Cobie Smulders does a great job as Maria Hill.

[Cowtools]

I think the point I am making is this - this is not a movie where the guys do all the heavy lifting and the girl sits back or needs rescuing. Widow is not a second stringer or a sidekick or a support character. Scarlett Johansonn's performace as Widow as a hero of equal status is clever and completely credible.

And that's another great thing - there is never a "You're just a girl" moment. Not once can I recall any of the heroes in the movie ever questioning her ability based on gender. The issue simply never arises. I had not even thought about it til I was typing this but Widow is simply a member of the team who has a unique skill set. She does indeed get a scene early on where she is in femme fatale mode but aside from that she is a hero, not a girl-hero.

And oh man - she does indeed get some great scenes. I dont want to spoil for our Amercian friends, but yeah, you are going to love it. If this were a Justice League movie and Wonder Woman got scenes this good this forum would be going nuts!

PS Its not just Widow either representing for the women. Cobie Smulders does a great job as Maria Hill.

Absolutely agree 100%!
I'm frankly surprised that Joss was able to resist giving one of his typical 'You go girl!' scenes, as he is famous for them.
Widow was like she is in the comics: super-skilled, super-professional, inscrutable, and somewhat sardonic. Perfect.
I would've liked Hill to have a kick-ass moment to herself, but she got to dispatch her fair share of mooks in the melee. I just wish she was in the scene when Cap says to Tony "Suit up!"
I also liked the inclusion of Pepper Potts. That was unexpected. (so hoping she gets her own Rescue suit in Iron Man 3).

[Cowtools]

Also,
spoilers:

You remember that blonde woman they cut away to like three times during the final battle, the one who was interviewed on the TV? I thought I recognized that actress, and that she'd turn out to be Carol Danvers or somebody.

end of spoilers
But no luck.

[Dr. Hurt]

Oh no, the arguments were as follows:
- Wonder Woman doesn't deserve her own movie because her fans suck so much
- Hollywood has no means of gauging audiences preferences based on their taste in other movies.

True story.

Anyway, back on topic: Marvel/Disney are mad if they don't give Hawkeye and Black Widow their own movie now. Especially with Jeremy Renner about to get a boost from the Bourne Legacy, and Scarlett Johansson being... well, Scarlett Johansson.
They made a great team.

Wait, there's gonna be new Bourne movies?
I was hoping she would get a movie with Bucky, you know, like the Winter Soldier book, but they made her Hawkeye's girl instead right?

[brettc1]

To Cowtools

spoilers:

I half expected one of the fighter pilots to be Carol Danvers.

end of spoilers

[Reginleif]

Is Marvel the anti-christ? probably

[dbcb314]

Possibly, but the talk is having her appear in Iron Man 3, while Hawkeye gets his own film. Which is a shame.

But I agree about Joss. Warner/DC should go crawling back and beg Joss to make a WW film.

pretty sure it has been confirmed she won't be in Ironman 3

[brettc1]

Wait, there's gonna be new Bourne movies?
I was hoping she would get a movie with Bucky, you know, like the Winter Soldier book, but they made her Hawkeye's girl instead right?

Its not that surprising if you think way back when both characters were introduced: they were a originally a team working against Iron Man. So its actually harking back to their origin story.

[Dr. Hurt]

I think the point I am making is this - this is not a movie where the guys do all the heavy lifting and the girl sits back or needs rescuing. Widow is not a second stringer or a sidekick or a support character. Scarlett Johansonn's performace as Widow as a hero of equal status is clever and completely credible.

And that's another great thing - there is never a "You're just a girl" moment. Not once can I recall any of the heroes in the movie ever questioning her ability based on gender. The issue simply never arises. I had not even thought about it til I was typing this but Widow is simply a member of the team who has a unique skill set. She does indeed get a scene early on where she is in femme fatale mode but aside from that she is a hero, not a girl-hero.

And oh man - she does indeed get some great scenes. I dont want to spoil for our Amercian friends, but yeah, you are going to love it. If this were a Justice League movie and Wonder Woman got scenes this good this forum would be going nuts!

PS Its not just Widow either representing for the women. Cobie Smulders does a great job as Maria Hill.

I dont think it was ever a question of her being a girl. It was whether she and Hawkeye could offer much without powers. Or does she have supersoldier powers too? I dont think that's the case in the movies.

I mean, when i showed the trailer to my sister she said "well there's a guy in power armor, a guy who's lightning Superman and a ton of aliens, plus that flying mechanical whale, so what's the arrow guy gonna do?" Which was a fair question. But i suppose they found a way to use them both.

Its not that surprising if you think way back when both characters were introduced: they were a originally a team working against Iron Man. So its actually harking back to their origin story.

I dont know all that much about Marvel, so thanks for the heads up!

[dbcb314]

I dont think it was ever a question of her being a girl. It was whether she and Hawkeye could offer much without powers. Or does she have supersoldier powers too?

no powers, just a super spy

[Cowtools]

Wait, there's gonna be new Bourne movies?
I was hoping she would get a movie with Bucky, you know, like the Winter Soldier book, but they made her Hawkeye's girl instead right?

Its not that surprising if you think way back when both characters were introduced: they were a originally a team working against Iron Man. So its actually harking back to their origin story.

Well since movie!Bucky was clearly set to come back (what was going on on that operating table huh?), Black Widow could be in Captain America 2.
Heck, now that spoilers:

Agent Coulson is dead

end of spoilers Black Widow could be the common S.H.I.E.L.D. presence in each film.

[Cowtools]

I dont think it was ever a question of her being a girl. It was whether she and Hawkeye could offer much without powers. Or does she have supersoldier powers too? I dont think that's the case in the movies.

I mean, when i showed the trailer to my sister she said "well there's a guy in power armor, a guy who's lightning Superman and a ton of aliens, plus that flying mechanical whale, so what's the arrow guy gonna do?" Which was a fair question. But i suppose they found a way to use them both.

Trust me, neither her nor Hawkeye come off looking second best to anyone in this film.

[Cowtools]

To Cowtools

spoilers:

I half expected one of the fighter pilots to be Carol Danvers.

end of spoilers

Well now that she's got a new comic series, she's in the cartoon, and Marvel studios still have the film rights, they are mad if they don't try and include her in the sequel.
Especially if they're going to be fighting spoilers:

Thanos

end of spoilers

[Reginleif]

I though Joss Weadon was the guy who played that kid in star treck

[Dr. Hurt]

Well since movie!Bucky was clearly set to come back (what was going on on that operating table huh?), Black Widow could be in Captain America 2.

I know he'll come back, but i cant remember, was there a scene in the movie where he is rescued?

Heck, now that spoilers:

Agent Coulson is dead

end of spoilers Black Widow could be the common S.H.I.E.L.D. presence in each film.

1) The spoiler really rustled my jimmies. Why would they do that? WHY?
2) I liked her in IM2 even though people said she was forced. I mean shield was in every Marvel movie, and in IM2 they needed to spy on Tony and then intervene to save him from self destroying himself. So Widow did that for them. The movie had its issues but i never thought BW was one of them.

Trust me, neither her nor Hawkeye come off looking second best to anyone in this film.

That's great!

Maybe Johns needs to get off the JL book because he clearly cant juggle 10 books simultaneously while running DCE. I mean Marvel managed to make this movie and make Widow and Hawkeye work, and from what i hear the movie isnt a stupid blockbuster, so what's Johns' excuse for this Michael Bay Justice League book?

Barry is Sam Witwicky.
Hal is the Witwicky parents.
Batman is Agent Simmons
Everybody else is the Autobots. They stay in the background and fight while Sam and his parents talk about masturbation, porn and make fart jokes.

And confirming my opinion that he cant write batman to save his life, he has him on useless jackass duty.
Oh yeah, i forgot, he (completely out of character) unsmasked himself to the most unrealiable guy in the league and he cheerleaded Cyborg to close the boomtubes.

"Come on, champ, you can do it! Just press yourself more....

But dont fart, alright?"


When Marvel can set up a complete movieverse and make the Avengers a good movie, and not a mindless blockbuster (from what i've heard), at the very least i expect a good JL comic book, if not a movie.

I MAD AS HELL RIGHT NOW!