Marvel's Agent Coulson Heads Into "Battle Scars"

[stephen wacker]

While I do agree it is good for someone from Marvel to come here and be willing to share their opinions, when it becomes clear you just want to shout people down and talk over them rather than actually discuss things, even when given the clear option, it makes one come off as belligerent and argumentative...even against people that just want to have a civil conversation. That's not sharing opinions...it's just bullying other people about their own opinions.

You seem to want the world on your terms. Fortunately you don't get to control what I think or say or answer. No one is required to take you seriously. It's the way message boards work. I've been posting on them for two decades and guys like you are always complaining about everyone else's behavior and projecting your bad behavior onto others.

Considering the invective you freely used earlier in the thread (unless you've deleted it), the "civil conversation" doesn't seem too terribly important to you.

You want me to acknowledge some belief you have about Fury or some such and the truth is, i don't really care. i don't even work on the book, but even if I did i still probably wouldn't care about your theory of "how things should be" beyond my general hope that people like the books I put out.

Not for nothing, but when people talk about "fan entitlement", your style of posting is what they mean.

(Hey, one thing... I can't see his posts, but I was wondering... are you in the secret MacQ club he always claims to have behind him? It's supposedly dozens of people who only respond to him privately about how much they agree. I wouldn't think so since that seems delusional, but honestly curious)

SW

[stephen wacker]

I'm not saying it "bugs" anyone, just that it might have merit for the aforementioned reasons. It creates more media overlap between the various products Marvel puts out, which can't really be a bad thing.

I think it makes things familiar for kids in a positive way. It makes them be able to say "Hey its the guy like on tv!"...and I don't mean that in their heads, I mean they literally tend to do that because kids like to figure stuff out AND like other people to know that they've figured stuff out. An older reader coming over from the movies would go "Oh that's that black guy Nick Fury that Sam Jackson plays"...but they're already going to do that with Ultimates.

Additionally it seems Ultimates is clearly more adult oriented where-as mainstream Marvel tends to be more all-ages (or at least with a broader spectrum than Ultimates is aimed at) so it would actually fit pretty well since Sam-Nick is already in Ultimates. This lines up pretty well because an adult is more apt to do some research and find out "Oh hey these movies seem heavily based on the Marvel Ultimate comics...I'll pick those up" where-as a kid is less likely to do that and more to just ask for "Avengers" comics...which, as long as their parental figure isn't picking them up more mature books like Ultimate Avengers, would be the mainstream Marvel where they'd then get to see EMH-Nick.

I think you have a solution in search of a problem. Just my opinion though.

And the problem this thread started with is that Marvel has TOO MUCH media overlap, now we need more. I can't keep track of where we go wrong.

SW

[YagamiFire]

You seem to want the world on your terms. Fortunately you don't get to control what I think or say or answer. No one is required to take you seriously. It's the way message boards work. I've been posting on them for two decades and guys like you are always complaining about everyone else's behavior and projecting your bad behavior onto others.

Considering the invective you freely used earlier in the thread (unless you've deleted it), the "civil conversation" doesn't seem too terribly important to you.

You want me to acknowledge some belief you have about Fury or some such and the truth is, i don't really care. i don't even work on the book, but even if I did i still probably wouldn't care about your theory of "how things should be" beyond my general hope that people like the books I put out.

Not for nothing, but when people talk about "fan entitlement", your style of posting is what they mean.

(Hey, one thing... I can't see his posts, but I was wondering... are you in the secret MacQ club he always claims to have behind him? It's supposedly dozens of people who only respond to him privately about how much they agree. I wouldn't think so since that seems delusional, but honestly curious)

SW

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Are you mistaking me for someone else or something? Honestly, speaking with you is like talking to someone that is subtly schizophrenic...and not like comic book schizophrenia, but the very real kind where people become confused and angry. I've been around people like that and, seriously, that is how you come off...paranoid, quick to anger, and full of projections towards others to read into them traits you want to be victimized by. I am not joking about this and I'm not saying it to attack you...I am honestly confused by your behavior and this is the closest thing I can equate it to. It's...strange to say the least.

As far as my "invective"...are you overly sensitive towards something I said? Ah I have a good response for that. "I'm pretty careful with what I post. I know not to go too overboard and to keep it light." If you point out what you mean exactly, however, I will not dismiss the possibility that it was overboard or, perhaps, that you misinterpreted me jesting for being serious, which I suppose is possible if you are in the frame of mind where you are preparing to be offended. By all means, let me know what it was and I will honestly let you know how it was meant or, if it was entirely sincere, why I said it (which would probably include a quote from you).

I think you have a solution in search of a problem. Just my opinion though.

And the problem this thread started with is that Marvel has TOO MUCH media overlap, now we need more. I can't keep track of where we go wrong.

SW

Um...this is what I don't understand. I did not start this thread, nor did I come into it saying there was too much media overlap so I am not sure what you are even talking about. The only criticism I have leveled towards the "New & Improved Sam Jackson Fury" is that it seems a silly thing to do for little pay off when there seem to be bigger issues at work that, if resolved, could help pull in new readers. I've had quite a few posts on other threads like the AvX one about how there are some tropes that keep popping up in Marvel books that seem detrimental to the "bigger picture" of gaining and retaining readers, which should always be a high-level goal. In fact, in another thread I'm talking about good villains for Marcus Johnson and how I want to use him in a tabletop game I am about to run for some friends set in the Marvel Universe so I am not railing against the decision. You are projecting your opinion of this threads contents onto me for some reason and I don't really know why other than that seems to be what you do in order to rile people up to play some sort of attacker/victim game. Again this goes back to my first portion of the thread...your behavior is very strange.

Also...problem? What problem? What solution? I am not even offering a solution...I'm offering an alternative opinion. What is wrong with that? I even put up reasons supporting it...this is how discussion occurs. You still haven't responded to ANYTHING I've said or put forth...you either dismiss it, ignore it, or attribute it to me demanding it be the way I say...when really I just want to discuss the merits of it (if any)

[Frank]

Marvel has ALWAYS killed second and third tier characters with wild abandon. It's part of the charm. And rest assured that someone feels as strongly as you do about those characters, and one day they'll be back. It's the nature of the genre.

And sign me up for that opening at Marvel...

eh. Not at all. The reason the MU has a been a great place it's because THERE'S A LOT OF GREAT MINOR CHARACTERS. Now it doesn't work if there are no more character, does it? Try resurrecting Happy Hogan.

[stephen wacker]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Are you mistaking me for someone else or something? )

Of course not. When you tell someone anywhere they better respond or "get the F out"' you're the one being belligerent and you wil will be laughed at when you then claim Queen's Manners. Own your online behavior instead of playing "who me".

Sorry you dont like my answers. Probably better you just ignore my posts. I'll try and do the same.

Good luck with the game.

SW

[Frank]

Also, for the record, I hate the decision to turn Marcus into Nick Fury Jr. and I really don't see what all the fuss over Agent Coulson is about. I'm not impressed with him in the least, in the movies or comics. He's a bland supporting character and if he completly disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn't piss me off or make me jump for joy. He's a nothing, an almost faceless nobody that's there to help move the story along... and if more is attempted to be made of him, it would be completely lost on me as I think he's a useles character that could be easily substituted by any other SHIELD agent with no effect on the story.

Yea Coulson is the most bland of the blandest character that bland has ever allowed to be. And he's the opposite of what Shield Agents are in the comics. Shield agents are not quiet, silent FBI Agents-types. A spy agency run by Nick Fury doesn't work that way. Nick recruited the most badass men in the World, recruiting them and forming them. Most of them are bad boys, it's like the Dirty Dozen, the Wild Bunch rolled into one giving black ops missions with super technology.

[David Walton]

Yea Coulson is the most bland of the blandest character that bland has ever allowed to be. And he's the opposite of what Shield Agents are in the comics. Shield agents are not quiet, silent FBI Agents-types. A spy agency run by Nick Fury doesn't work that way. Nick recruited the most badass men in the World, recruiting them and forming them. Most of them are bad boys, it's like the Dirty Dozen, the Wild Bunch rolled into one giving black ops missions with super technology.

But there was what, Jasper Sitwell, I think? But you're dead wrong about Coulson anyway. He's actually pretty badass, just not in the way you'd expect. He doesn't puff out his chest like it's a Schwarzenegger flick or anything, but he gets the job done.

[YagamiFire]

Yea Coulson is the most bland of the blandest character that bland has ever allowed to be. And he's the opposite of what Shield Agents are in the comics. Shield agents are not quiet, silent FBI Agents-types. A spy agency run by Nick Fury doesn't work that way. Nick recruited the most badass men in the World, recruiting them and forming them. Most of them are bad boys, it's like the Dirty Dozen, the Wild Bunch rolled into one giving black ops missions with super technology.

I kinda like Coulson in a liaison roll though because of his blandness...it's like the calm, governmental face that you meet before being exposed to the whacky insanity of SHIELD that grew out of the whacky insanity that was the Howling Commandos. In that regard it makes sense. He's a good straight man but I am not sure how he will play as a long-term supporting character without developing him in a direction that is increasingly further away from the intent of the character. Half the fun will be seeing how he develops, I suppose...hopefully he can actually be a legitimate character while retaining his initial charm (the irony of which is that he doesn't really have any 'charm' I suppose)

[Old Sparky]

I'd like to see both killed, chopped up, and stuffed into a refridgerator.

[RDMacQ]

I'd like to see both killed, chopped up, and stuffed into a refridgerator.

I like Agent Coulson. That is to say, I like the performance of his actor. It's interesting to see a subdued, yet effective, agent interacting with the larger than life heroes of the Marvel U. Used effectively, I think he could serve as interesting counterbalance to the more larger than life Nick Fury or Maria Hill types in the comics.

I worry, though, since he doesn't have that personality like a character like Harley Quinn has, that just leaps off the page or the screen. I fear that what makes him interesting and fun gets lost in the transition.

[Frank]

I'd like to see both killed, chopped up, and stuffed into a refridgerator.

So we're all in agreement then?

[Monty_Cristo]

i'm against the move because of how it played out. i have no problem with movie Coulson or Fury. i could have lived with Coulson making the transition over to the 616 because he isn't already well accounted for in the Ultimate Universe. i might have even settled for there being a 616 counterpart to Ultimate Nick Fury if he weren't a relative of 616 Nick Fury (just and equally experienced intelligence operative that we hadn't met). i would have also settled for Ultimate Nick Fury making his way into the 616 reality somehow (he did something similar for the Squadron Supreme series). but just giving Nick a black kid and turning him into Samuel L Jackson seems amateurish to me.

[Old Sparky]

So we're all in agreement then?

You don't like Coulson and Marcus either? Or did you think I mean Wacker and someone else. :D

[Frank]

i'm against the move because of how it played out. i have no problem with movie Coulson or Fury. i could have lived with Coulson making the transition over to the 616 because he isn't already well accounted for in the Ultimate Universe. i might have even settled for there being a 616 counterpart to Ultimate Nick Fury if he weren't a relative of 616 Nick Fury (just and equally experienced intelligence operative that we hadn't met). i would have also settled for Ultimate Nick Fury making his way into the 616 reality somehow (he did something similar for the Squadron Supreme series). but just giving Nick a black kid and turning him into Samuel L Jackson seems amateurish to me.

If anything it feels rushed. Like "quick the movie is coming out, we need a black Fury!". They are ready to thrown their hardcore fans under the boss for movie glitters at any moments.

[YagamiFire]

I like Agent Coulson. That is to say, I like the performance of his actor. It's interesting to see a subdued, yet effective, agent interacting with the larger than life heroes of the Marvel U. Used effectively, I think he could serve as interesting counterbalance to the more larger than life Nick Fury or Maria Hill types in the comics.

I worry, though, since he doesn't have that personality like a character like Harley Quinn has, that just leaps off the page or the screen. I fear that what makes him interesting and fun gets lost in the transition.

Huh dunno where what I posted went...

However, I'll repeat that I agree with you big time on these points...you worded it better than I did though. A calm, reserved MIB style character interacting with a colorful, bombastic superhero makes for some good stuff...especially on film.

On the personality thing, however, I think you'd be spot-on IF people didn't have the performance by Clark Gregg to go by as context...by having the character already come pre-packaged with a 'voice' to attach to him it makes Coulson more than just wallpaper and people should be able to relate to him a bit better. I don't think I'd find him overly compelling if not for the portrayal in the Marvel movies first...it adds an important dimension to him. Whether that can be maintained, however, is really a different matter because that "voice" has to remain consistent. Actually what would be REALLY helpful for that is if Coulson starts showing up in the A:EMH show. That could give the character quite a bit of sticking power by giving him more opportunity to develop with that voice still lending the character that ever-important context.