In praise of Lady Death. (WW related. Trust me :)

[SteveGus]

When I compare the current Wonder Woman run to Lady Death, I thought I'd say a few words about the character and why I think this is a real possibility.

The version of Lady Death that's freshest in mind is actually the one from the Lady Death direct to DVD animated film from 2004. This film is mildly entertaining, though it pales in the face of any of the DC direct animated films. It differs from the character that was published in the 1990s, that originated as a pinup for Evil Ernie but was later given a story, mostly by

spoilers:

turning Lady Death into a heroine of sorts.

end of spoilers

Spoilering this in case you haven't seen it and want to.

spoilers:

Medieval Sweden. Hope is the daughter of a local warlord. Hope's love is Niccolo, a student. Her dad is Matthias, who constantly needs to conscript people into his army to fight some war whose nature is not explained. Unknown to his innocent daughter, Matthias had a dark secret. Matthias was outwardly pious, but secretly dabbled in black magic and demonology. He was actually a descendant of the fallen angels who had led the rebellion against God. By contrast, Hope's mother was a woman so pure and innocent that her bloodline reached Heaven. Hope's mother died when Hope was still in her late teens, and she was left to live with her father. Eventually, Matthias' cruelty triggered a peasant uprising. Matthias narrowly escaped death at the hands of the rebels by summoning a demon, but Hope was captured by the rebels and accused of witchcraft. While she burns at the stake, Hope strikes a bargain with a demon that appears and is poofed to Hell. There, she learns that Dad's in charge down here too, because Matthias was in fact Lucifer, the ruler of Hell. Dad's got Niccolo in Hell; that's expected, he was a humanistic student of science. Dad's also got saintly Mom's soul in Hell too; damned if I know either. Dad offers Hope a place by his side; she refuses, and is cast out from Lucifer's digs into regular Hell, which is more or less what you expected. In Hell, Hope beats back a pack of hellhounds, and this bit of spunk commends her to a weaponsmith called Cremator. He trains her in swordsmanship. She declares that Hope is no more; henceforth she is Lady Death. This leads to a standard quest where she must acquire a magic sword and flying steed, defeat various demon lords, and ultimately muster an army for a rebellion against Lucifer. This, of course, leads to the climactic battle. She learns, however, that her curse is to remain in Hell for as long as one of Lucifer's allies remains alive.

end of spoilers

Yes, this reminds me very strongly of Azzarello's story so far, where Diana is essentially mustering an army to challenge the gods. And it actually isn't a bad story. And it's one of the reasons why I think that Diana will end up in some kind of long term relationship with Hades or his domain. If you're going to give a hero a dark side or a villain a bright side, this is a way to do that. And I continue to believe that it is DC editorial policy to darken Diana, her environment, and her character.

[americanwonder]

This is a fun hypothesis to read, but I don't see this happening. For starters, she doesn't show any connection to Hades in Justice Leage, right? I mean, no shadow-death powers or somesuch.

Does DC want a darker WW (especially her world)? Sure. Lady Death Powers Activate? No. Don't see it. Could be wrong though, so keep preaching, Steve. :)

[SteveGus]

I realize it's far-fetched. But ---

<cue spooky organ music>

Is it any more far-fetched than what we have read so far?

[americanwonder]

<cue Final Jeapordy music>

What is "Yes"?

;)

[DarkKnghtJared]

I suspect that this marriage of Hades will last about as long as most instances in superhero comics where the heroine is forced to marry the villain--less than an issue, tops.

That said, that does sound like an interesting take on Lady Death. Makes me wonder if there's any good comics starring her.

[carabas]

This is starting to border on trolling now.

What in that synopsys is in any way at all similar to what has transpired in Azzarellos run?

[foxandwall]

This is a fun hypothesis to read, but I don't see this happening. For starters, she doesn't show any connection to Hades in Justice Leage, right? I mean, no shadow-death powers or somesuch.
Does DC want a darker WW (especially her world)? Sure. Lady Death Powers Activate? No. Don't see it. Could be wrong though, so keep preaching, Steve. :)

She said back to hades once, although it is five years ago...

[SteveGus]

This is a fun hypothesis to read, but I don't see this happening. For starters, she doesn't show any connection to Hades in Justice Leage, right? I mean, no shadow-death powers or somesuch.

Does DC want a darker WW (especially her world)? Sure. Lady Death Powers Activate? No. Don't see it. Could be wrong though, so keep preaching, Steve. :)

At this stage, we don't even have a relative chronology between the trip to Hades and the Justice League current appearances.

I don't know why DC would want a darker Wonder Woman. Hasn't that been run into the ground over the past ten years?

[slvn]

I don't know why DC would want a darker Wonder Woman.

Well, me neither, and that is one reason why I don't think we're going to have a darker Wonder Woman at the end of Azz and Chiang's run.

Another reason that I don't think we'll have a darker WW then is that I don't think we have one yet; so far we have a Wonder Woman who shines brightly against an often-dark world. (Notice I didn't say "more brightly," because on this board, praising this run by contrast to previous ones is a dark and winding road that I don't feel like going down right now. ) Killing a centaur while protecting an innocent is by no means no darkest thing any version of Wonder Woman has ever done; for my money, the darkest think would probably be---Ooops! I almost went down that dark and winding road, didn't I?

I do actually think she might take a darker turn in the next few issues, though I'd be just as happy if she didn't. Azz did say she he has a lot more tearing down to do before he builds up. But I expect she'll be bright again by the time Azz and Chiang's run is done.

[Outside_85]

She said back to hades once, although it is five years ago...

Which is referring to the place (Hades is both his name and the name of his domain, which is why he wanted Lennox to call him Hell).

[SteveGus]

Killing a centaur while protecting an innocent is by no means no darkest thing any version of Wonder Woman has ever done; for y money, the darkest think would probably be---Ooops! I almost went down that dark and winding road, didn't I?

This is part of the reason why this run feels so stale and old to me. Rucka, while not a personal favorite, seems much cleverer than he did at the time in retrospect. He actually used parts of the story that had gone before to set up his series of tragedies for Diana, though I do think he also borrowed heavily from Mark Waid's Kingdom Come Diana. He didn't need to sever her connections with Themiscyra or degrade the characters of the Amazons to do it, and he created Amazon characters like Io that are interesting and we'd like to hear more about.

I do actually think she might take a darker turn in the next few issues, though I'd be just as happy if she didn't. Azz did she he has a lot more tearing down to do before he builds up. But I expect she'll be bright again by the time Azz and Chiang's run is done.

He thinks he hasn't done enough damage? :facepalm:

[Fused]

I've been reading Lady Death since her book relaunch and have been enjoying it immensely. I noticed she started off with pants for the first few issues... odd trend I've been noticing in superheroine relaunches, but it was another "heroine's journey" book but an enjoyable one nonetheless. I never really got into her in the 90's, but this book is a bit more grounded in my opinion and a touch more relatable. It's also amazing how much giving her pupils and calling her "Hope" does for gaining her accessibility to me as a reader.

I wouldn't be surprised if the book's creators followed closely to what DC has been doing with Wonder Woman in the past year to steer Lady Death onto a successful path.

[slvn]

He didn't need to sever her connections with Themiscyra

On the other hand, he did have Themyscira retreat to another dimension, didn't he?

More importantly, I think Azz, compared to Rucka, is asking a fundamentally different question.

Rucka was asking what happens when an ambassador of peace is forced to kill a human being.

Azz is asking what happens when a hero discovers that her past and her family were not what they seemed.

Those aren't the same. Neither is reducible to just "darkening." And one doesn't preempt or replicate the other. Azz's question may be too "dark" for you, but not everyone who likes it wants the character herself to become corrupted. For some, it's interesting to see how she shines in a darker world, and we can hope she will make it brighter.

(Oh, and Azz's question may be somewhat similar to that posed by the Lady Death story, but so far there's been no sign that his answer will be the same. Diana has done nothing to suggest that she will try to save herself by pledging her services to evil or to death.)

Besides, I didn't have Rucka in mind when I mentioned what I think is probably the darkest thing Wonder Woman has ever done. Have you ever see the Sensation Comics page on which Marston has her crash "Jap" planes into their support bases?

[SteveGus]

Rucka was asking what happens when an ambassador of peace is forced to kill a human being.

Azz is asking what happens when a hero discovers that her past and her family were not what they seemed.

Those aren't the same. Neither is reducible to just "darkening." And one doesn't pre-empt or replicate the other.

The problem for me has become one of monotony of tone. Rucka was dark and slow. Azzarello is darker, almost as slow, and you can't take what the book says for granted, apparently. I want more talking gorillas and islands full of eternally young women in togas. I want a book that doesn't make me feel tired of being alive.

Besides, I didn't have Rucka in mind when I mentioned what I think is probably the darkest thing Wonder Woman has ever done. Have you ever see the Sensation Comics page on which Marston has her crash "Jap" planes into their support bases?

I'm sure I have, but it's been a while....

[Mr. Holmes]

I can't wait to see Diana marry her uncle and become Lady Death. It all fits together now.