Does anyone else feel like this is not "their Batman?"

[earl]

Thing is though, it wasn't like there was a demarcation line (even though Batman 400 is there) for the differences between pre and post Crisis Batman back in the 80s. I don't think it was Frank Miller that really changed things, more really maybe starting with Jim Starlin's run as Batman writer on "Ten Nights of the Beast" which was pretty cynical storyline that lead into killing off Jason Todd and then a couple years later you have the breaking of the Bat.

After that you got the Batman being much more obsessive, not trusting and generally just going like he isn't having fun.

[earl]

I do think that over time, there is definitely a difference between the Post-Crisis I Batman and the one of the Bronze Age 70s, perhaps more than given.

[TheGoshDarnBatman]

On some level, I agree, because this isn't Morrison's Bruce or Dick, who are my Batmen. But as far as the voice of the whole line goes I'd say it's been fairly stable.

[Master X]

(To TC) The entire lot of characters feels that way to me.

[iduckles]

This really makes me nostalgic for those "This Week X Years Ago in Batman History" threads you used to have Jim.

I agree! I also really enjoyed those columns, but the reason giving for suspending them makes sense.

[clownprince01]

I've only dabbled in Batman in the New 52 as I'm trade waiting it. But if there's one complaint I've had with Batman recently, especially in the past few years with Morrison's stuff, is I've felt like Batman stories have just kept getting grander and grander. It's not necessarily a bad thing, and in fact I've quite enjoyed some of it, but I feel like Batman stories should maintain a rather small and more personal scope as oppose to facing off against the decades old Court of Owls or creating Batman Inc.

I have this feeling writers giving a character a different voice much more with Superman though, especially in Justice League. He's someone who I believe should be a cut above the rest of the Justice League and takes a very strong leadership role. While Batman's voice has been relatively the same, I feel like Geoff Johns is too busy trying to make everyone equal that some of the old personalities and dynamics are lost. But that's another issue altogether.

[vampiric_cannibal]

For less 'grand scale' or 'epics' I'd advise reading the non-flagship titles. ATM, they're whatever is being written by Snyder or Morrisson. Tomasi isn't doing a sweeping epic, for instance. It appears that Hurwitz is going to be doing classic rogues, as is Daniels.

[Mr. Holmes]

I feel the opposite. I think the stories in the non-flagship books are just telling the stories that have been told over and over already.

[Winghead]

Well, for me, so far Snyder's Batman hasn't seemed like a huge reversion, and I think "reversion" isn't necessarily the word for different reactions depending on circumstance. For me, the big concerns would be the fact that I'm still unsure about whether or not we're supposed to view Bruce as someone who wants to make the world a better place/protect people and the fact that I'm really hating what Higgins is saying about the "Prince of Gotham" arc. The idea that Bruce, after his triumphant return and reinvestment both in and out of the cowl to helping the world, suddenly needs to be replaced by Nightwing? The idea that he's not an inspiring figure even though we've had tons of stories even just over the last few years about how he's inspired quite a lot of good in the world? That's really what's a betrayal of pre-Flashpoint Batman, if anything is. Hopefully that nonsense will be restricted to Nightwing.

First of all, we don't even know what will happen in Prince of Gotham. Mayor Hady is corrupt in some ways, so for all you know he'll end up using Dick for his own purposes. As a side note, And we've been through this many times, DC has a lot invested in Nightwing right now, especially due to Dick's increased popularity, so they are working an angle that allows him to function as something other than Batman lite. I do not think Bruce will literally be devalued to elevate Dick, I just think they will be emphasizing some new ideas to "Nightwing" as a symbol. Less emphasis on crime fighting and more on helping people

[Dr. Hurt]

As a side note, And we've been through this many times, DC has a lot invested in Nightwing right now,

How so? He only appears in one book, his own. How is he more important than any other character, any other book?

[Winghead]

How so? He only appears in one book, his own. How is he more important than any other character, any other book?

I think by Higgins and Snyder working so closely together and Nightwing being so linked with the core Batman book, it is clear that they want to show that Dick is still important even though he's not Batman. He has been a huge guest star in Batman, and will soon be featured in Batman and Robin and guest appearing in Batwing.

[SpideyZERO]

Nightwing doesn't even get the HC treatment

[StDumas]

But if there's one complaint I've had with Batman recently, especially in the past few years with Morrison's stuff, is I've felt like Batman stories have just kept getting grander and grander.

That's a good point. I don't want to antagonize anyone but I think the best Batman story of the latter noughties was Heart of Hush rather than Batman RIP.

[TZDEKA]

First of all, we don't even know what will happen in Prince of Gotham. Mayor Hady is corrupt in some ways, so for all you know he'll end up using Dick for his own purposes. As a side note, And we've been through this many times, DC has a lot invested in Nightwing right now, especially due to Dick's increased popularity, so they are working an angle that allows him to function as something other than Batman lite. I do not think Bruce will literally be devalued to elevate Dick, I just think they will be emphasizing some new ideas to "Nightwing" as a symbol. Less emphasis on crime fighting and more on helping people

We don't know exactly what'll happen in Prince of Gotham, but we do know what Higgins' pitch is for it, and he has literally said "Bruce isn't an effective hero and all he represents to the world is fear, Nightwing is a better, more compassionate fit". But none of that is true. Batman doesn't represent fear to anyone but criminals, he's just as compassionate as Dick, if not more so, if you go by the dictionary definition, and the reason he's not allowed to totally clean up Gotham is because then there's no story. To say Batman's an ineffective hero who's so flawed compared to Nightwing that he needs to be replaced is nothing but diminishing Batman to prop up Nightwing. If it were simply Nightwing taking on a different role that helps the city in a new, different, and complimentary way that'd be one thing. But every time he mentions it, he also mentions how right the Court of Owls are about Batman being insignificant and how he's so flawed he can never accomplish his goal of making Gotham a better place. As much as he and Snyder collaborate, I don't get the sense that was Snyder's point at all, especially not the former.

Point being, he's the one who spoke of it as though it had something to do with Nightwing needing to replace Batman. He's not spoken of it as though Nightwing and Batman are gonna work in tandem on different projects, so far it's been specifically that Nightwing is a better hero than Batman. And again, by the very definition of compassion, Batman has few who are more compassionate than he is. Compassion is not getting your kicks from helping people, it's merely a strong desire to alleviate the suffering of others. Which Bruce has, to paraphrase Kingdom Come, as much as anyone. That's why he devotes almost all of his time to fighting crime and philanthropic efforts at the expense of a personal life.

[ryuluddy]

I have always felt Batman is more or less timeless. Batman stories (good ones) aren't just about super heros beating up bad guys, there is usually a mystery element to it.

I've read Batman on and off longer than I'd like to admit. The best Batman stories are usually action wrapped in mystery, and each book gets you further into unraveling the mystery.

That's what separates Batman from so many other super heros. He doesn't have powers and he chooses to be Batman, maybe he can't even stop being Batman. But still, it's not just a super hero beat em' up.