Thread Drift: Ultimate Gwen Stacy and Peter Parker's Love Life

[Ravin' Ray]

Ultimate Gwen is mentioned, MJ is mentioned, but NO Carlie. HA!

[Kevinroc]

Ultimate Gwen is mentioned, MJ is mentioned, but NO Carlie. HA!

Who?

[E. Wilson]

Who?

Her.

Now you gon' be da worm face!

[Kevinroc]

We just need to retitle these threads "Gerry Conway was right."

[KurtW95]

We just need to retitle these threads "Gerry Conway was right."

Somehow I knew you'd show up.

[Confuzzled Mutie]

Somehow I knew you'd show up.

It's alright, it's alright, at least you get Ultimate Gwen.

[Kevinroc]

Somehow I knew you'd show up.

Haters gonna hate.

It's alright, it's alright, at least you get Ultimate Gwen.

Hey, Ultimate Gwen was pretty awesome. Best incarnation of that character ever.

[Confuzzled Mutie]

Hey, Ultimate Gwen was pretty awesome. Best incarnation of that character ever.

True. Appealing (unlike the original Silver Age) while still staying true to the character (unlike Spider-Man: Blue and the Spectacular toon).

[davidjack]

What if Ultimate Gwen stays in the 616 universe? Would that be something that Marvel / Wacker or Slott likes? At least she never has been with Norman.

[Kevinroc]

Ben Reilly can get it on with her in the afterlife, so there's still a Peter (sort of) with a Gwen.

And now the Gwen clone is dead too. Will Ben choose the original Gwen or the Gwen clone? Oh dear!

What if Ultimate Gwen stays in the 616 universe? Would that be something that Marvel / Wacker or Slott likes? At least she never has been with Norman.

Ultimate Gwen is like 16.

I'm sorry. I just don't like her. Peter deserves a nicer girl (Gwen).

How is MJ not nice? Aunt May said she has a wonderful personality.

[One More Day]

Haters gonna hate.



Hey, Ultimate Gwen was pretty awesome. Best incarnation of that character ever.

Ultimate Gwen was a weirdo freak. Remember her crying in the dumpster? Weirdo

[Confuzzled Mutie]

1) So, let me get this straight. you want to chastise me for ignoring Conway, but at the same time you want to ignore Lee. Right. That's ridiculous.
2) I'm not ignoring Conway anymore than EVERY OTHER WRITER EVER has. The truth is that Spider-Man has been written by dozens of men over the years, and every writer who has brought up Gwen, be it DeFalco or Loeb or Ven Lente or whoever (just to name a few recent ones), has taken a much more nuanced approach. Conway just tries to make it be one way, and it's never stuck.
3) It's funny you want to talk about having no bearing on the long run, since the issues where Conway DOES try and suggest that Peter has moved on were retconed to basically be nonexistent thanks to the clone saga.
4) The rest of this part is just fanboyism that's irrelevant to discussion. I don't need to hear about the rough patches between Peter and Mary Jane. The argument here has nothing to do with them arguing or not. That's just you gushing.

1) So, you stand by Stan despite what he did to Gwen? Which was slowly and steadily destroy every part of her appeal until she was just left a miserable husk? For, it may have been GC who actually threw Gwen off the bridge, but he wouldn't have done so if Stan hadn't massacred the character's personality before he even arrived on board.
2) You are talking as if all those writers brought Gwen back to life, going by your explanation of them "disregarding Conway". Btw, you just mentioned two and made it sound like a lot by saying "whoever".
3) What are you talking about? It is only the Ben Reilly dying bit which has been retconned out of continuity from the first Clone saga. The elements with Peter/MJ/Gwen clone are all still intact, as far as I know.
4) And your idea of Gwen always being Peter's OTL isn't pure fanboyism, buoyed by a couple of writers agreeing with you? Heck, even JMS prefers Peter and MJ together as he find them to be a great team together and the poor guy was forced to pen the abortion that was OMD. So how is it "fanboyism" to say that whenever Peter and MJ are separated, they are always expected to bounce back from the setbacks and reconcile?

There's nothing rational in here to respond to, but I have to correct you again, so I'll point out that your battle between Mary Jane and Gwen already happened. Gwen won. You can read it if you want. It was really printed. It really happened. You tried to dismiss it earlier in this post. Did you forget? "That doesn't count because I don't like it!!!!" is not a sufficient argument.

Umm, yeah, that was the battle? Which MJ was created in order to lose, so as to make Gwen look good? (And Stan didn't even get that much entirely right.) Okay, I guess you need delusions of this scale if you insist on obsessing about a mediocre character gone way before your time. (Which is such a needlessly futile exercise anyway and I simply cannot understand the logic behind).

Appeal to authority ("GERRY CONWAY AGREES WITH ME!") is a logical fallacy of no value. You can attempt to blame that on writers, but hey, Facts! And MY Facts are actually printed rather than just an assumption about the out-of-universe views by one of Spider-Man's dozens of writers. The facts are that Gerry Conway was just a sore loser. =p

A sore loser who is just believed to have penned the greatest Spider-Man tale of all time. (A discussion which we have had before). A sore loser whose decision of bumping off a character had such a major impact that it brought about the end of an entire era? A sore loser whose coupling of two characters has now become the default and most recognized of couplings not just in the series itself but in all of comics, thanks to his incredible foresight? Man, I wouldn't mind being that kind of a sore loser! =p

So please, if that's what you're holding back, then do yourself a favor and keep holding it back, since that's where things not based in reality belong.

Not in your personal "reality", no! =p

It partially is. It's partially about appeasing all sides through compromise (where no one is QUITE happy).

Doesn't have to be that way. As I said, "If I can't win, neither should you!".

But I think it's more about the tragedy aspect. If Peter gets his greatest love anyway, then Gwen dying is no more important than her father or Marla Jameson. Less, possibly, since if he loves Mary Jane MORE (rather than just the same), then GG did him a favor by stopping him from making a mistake. I think that makes the story overall weaker than with him loving Gwen more, but eh.

Not really. Gwen will always be significant as the catalyst who brought Peter and MJ together. Even if he does love MJ more, he wouldn't have known that love if he hadn't lost Gwen. And that is the beauty of most tragedies. That there remains hope for better, maybe something even better than before! It doesn't take away anything from the mythos, all it does is take away from your inane fanboyism.

[Xenon]

1) So, you stand by Stan despite what he did to Gwen? Which was slowly and steadily destroy every part of her appeal until she was just left a miserable husk? For, it may have been GC who actually threw Gwen off the bridge, but he wouldn't have done so if Stan hadn't massacred the character's personality before he even arrived on board.
2) You are talking as if all those writers brought Gwen back to life, going by your explanation of them "disregarding Conway". Btw, you just mentioned two and made it sound like a lot by saying "whoever".
3) What are you talking about? It is only the Ben Reilly dying bit which has been retconned out of continuity from the first Clone saga. The elements with Peter/MJ/Gwen clone are all still intact, as far as I know.
4) And your idea of Gwen always being Peter's OTL isn't pure fanboyism, buoyed by a couple of writers agreeing with you? Heck, even JMS prefers Peter and MJ together as he find them to be a great team together and the poor guy was forced to pen the abortion that was OMD. So how is it "fanboyism" to say that whenever Peter and MJ are separated, they are always expected to bounce back from the setbacks and reconcile?

1) Yes. Because what he did to Gwen is vastly overstated.
2) I mentioned three. I don't have the patience to go through and find all the other appearances by Gwen or dealing with Peter's feelings about her. There's one in the 200s, there's another in the Clone Saga, I'm sure there are others but I can't be bothered. And it's possible to disregard only the bad stuff and not the good.
3) Gerry Conway wrote the High Evolutionary issues where clone Gwen isn't really clone Gwen. Which of course was retconned to be a lie.
4) No, it's not. Your post is obvious fanboyism because it's just a speech about how great they are unprompted and irrelevant to the converstaion. I have no problem with Peter and Mary Jane.

Umm, yeah, that was the battle? Which MJ was created in order to lose, so as to make Gwen look good? (And Stan didn't even get that much entirely right.) Okay, I guess you need delusions of this scale if you insist on obsessing about a mediocre character gone way before your time. (Which is such a needlessly futile exercise anyway and I simply cannot understand the logic behind).

I'm not the one who's clearly contradicting what's on the printed page. Gwen and Mary Jane vy for Peter's affections. Gwen wins. Fight over. The only reason MJ got a round two was because Conway was a sore loser and killed the winner. Again, delusions aren't mine.

Also, you misunderstand the purpose of Mary Jane Watson. She wasn't created to lose. She was created to muck up his love life. Which she did. Then Conway decided to take her seriously because he was young and naiive. =p

A sore loser who is just believed to have penned the greatest Spider-Man tale of all time. (A discussion which we have had before). A sore loser whose decision of bumping off a character had such a major impact that it brought about the end of an entire era? A sore loser whose coupling of two characters has now become the default and most recognized of couplings not just in the series itself but in all of comics, thanks to his incredible foresight? Man, I wouldn't mind being that kind of a sore loser! =p

All of this is true, except for that bit about foresight. What's your point? A good result can come about because of a bad motivation. Heck, 121-122 are my favorite Spider-Man comics of all time. They're damn impressive. That doesn't mean Conway wasn't just killing her because he's a sore loser. =p

Not really. Gwen will always be significant as the catalyst who brought Peter and MJ together. Even if he does love MJ more, he wouldn't have known that love if he hadn't lost Gwen. And that is the beauty of most tragedies. That there remains hope for better, maybe something even better than before! It doesn't take away anything from the mythos, all it does is take away from your inane fanboyism.

That's not a tragedy.If losing something lets you get something better, then you didn't really lose. You have to lose for it to be a tragedy. You want to weaken the series so it fits your narrow preferred version of the series, just like a certain former Editor in Chief of Marvel.

The only one who's fanboyism is being threatened here is yours. Because it's being threatened by THE TRUTH! =p