Young Justice Season 2: The New Blood.

[Theozilla]

Aqualad was assertive for one episode, then he just went back to being pretty passive and got very little development despite taking up a lot of screen time.

Yeah he was unlucky with romance, but I really disagree that he was not more assertive later in Season 1, Alpha Male is a great example of him leading. Failsafe+Disordered was a great exploration of Kaldur's positives and negatives as a leader and why at the time he was the best choice as a leader. Misplaced, Insecurity, Usual Suspects, and Auld Acquaintance had Aqualad acting confidently and successfully as a leader. I love his Invasion role even more but I simply disagree that he had no arc in Season 1.

1. No she wasn't she just a "What's that? This happened?" for people who were dumb enough to join in the LAST TWO EPISODES of the Season. A bit of sass a personality does not make.
2. Zatanna was given characterization, was further developed over the course of the season, and was given a arc in showing her cope with the loss of her father which was never given a proper conclusion due to the time skip.

Rocket was given multiple cameos throughout Season 1, and again she is a supporting character, not all characters get equal screen-time/characterization.
Zatanna is still dealing with the loss of her father, Greg Weisman has stated part of the reason why she joined the League was so she could keep a closer eye on Doctor Fate, Zatara becoming Doctor Fate was a consequence which created a new status quo that Zatanna had to live with, Auld Acquaintance last scene with Zatanna and Doctor Fate is indicative of that.

It showed him showing that he was reluctant to be leader. Season 2 shows what an idiotic leader he is.

It showed that he was reluctant but also had a lot of talent and future potential as a leader. I disagree that he is being a idiotic leader in Season 2, he made a risky plan with Kaldur that was dangerous but offered very valuable payoffs, unaccounted factors intervened though. It is a staple of spy/double-agent plots/dramas.

And Catherine Cobert was supposed to appear in Season 1, plans can change.

Your comparing apples and oranges, Catherine Cobert is a minor cameo character, while the time skip is an entire plot and status changing factor. One is far more important than the other and not malleable to later change. And you also seem to questioning the truthfulness of Greg Weisman's own public statements, which is kinda insulting to him.

Which is why she let her sister escape when she found out she was Cheshire. Riiiiiight. No, Artemis clearly did actually love her sister, as Cheshire loved Artemis. Sportsmaster, though, both girls seem to resent him. So there's plenty you could do with Arty still loving her sister even though she's a villain.

Of course she loves her sister I never denied that. Her character arc had to do with her villainous heritage and how that affected her relationship with the team. Your basically upset the decided to focus on thing instead of another, which is applicable to every work of fiction ever.

Then why was Billy focused on so much?

Billy wasn't focused on, he had guest roles for one episode or two, but they weren't character arcs. Red Tornado had the same with the T.O. Morrow subplot.

That happened in one episode with no consequences, he wasn't being immature as much as he had wanted to actually celebrate his birthday fighting alongside his mentor and got stuck doing what seemed like a menial job.

Coldhearted is not the only example, Denial, Bereft, Humanity, Failsafe+Disordered, Insecurity, and Usual Suspects all explored Wally's development as a hero and his relationship with his teammates to different degrees.

[Claude]

So then they had a lot left to do like:

[LIST][*]Give Aqualad development[*]Establish Rocket's personality

They had plenty of time to do this in the first series. They either chose not to, weren't able to, or thought the Time Skip was the best way of doing it.

[*]Go through Rocket's teen pregnancy arc

Was never going to be on this show. Not even an option.

Even when Aged Up, Cheshire and Roy had to have been married for them to get Lian Harper in there.

[*]Continue Zatanna's arc to save her father[*]Have Robin deal with becoming team leader[*]Have Aqualad deal with stepping down from team leader

We're dealing with that now.

[*]Give Superboy and M'gann a break or focus on their realationships with their schoolmates

That isn't a plotline, and they're dealing with them being "on a break" now.

[*]Have Clone!Roy focus on his hunt for Real!Roy (without a time skip)

And how long would that have taken him? Be on the hunt for, what, three weeks?

We are focussing on the hunt. And that plotline was clearly only introduced so we could catch up with it after five years of hunting.

[*]Give Artemis an arc trying to deal with her conflicting emotions with her sister

They could have done that, yes. They can still do it now. What's the "loss" here?

[*]Have the Team get new member and actually focus on them

Ekil annataZ?

[*]Give Red Tornado an arc where he tries to adapt to human society, meet and fall in love with Kathy Sutton, and adopt Traya

Could have, clearly had no interest in. "Red Tornado goes dating, eventually meets someone, falls in love, they decide to adopt after much reflection and them embark upon the lengthy and time-consuming process of adoption" is not only not thrilling storytelling in this kind of show, but is also the kind of thing you actually need a Time Skip for if you want to protrary it even remotely realistically or effectively.

[*]DO SOMETHING WITH WALLY

They could've. They didn't want to. They didn't want to for a lot of the latter half of the first series, and when planning the second they decided to sideline him. That's not the time skip's fault, that's the writers.

I think that covered everyone in the main cast at least once.

Yes, but most of those just say "Do Something With That Character" - which is hardly an especially ripe mine of ideas.

[The Darknight Detective]

I would have loved if they had stayed with the younger team, but I think the timeskip has been handled in a very interesting way, especially when viewed in tandem with the comic.

I agree. Personally, I have been very happy with the program so far.

[Galosengen]

What The Hell?

[GoldStarz]

They had plenty of time to do this in the first series. They either chose not to, weren't able to, or thought the Time Skip was the best way of doing it.

Weren't able to clearly. They obviously tried, even if they pretty much wasted a whole episode on it.

Was never going to be on this show. Not even an option.

And I honestly think that's a shame, they still could've given her something to do or cut her out completely.

Even when Aged Up, Cheshire and Roy had to have been married for them to get Lian Harper in there.

Do you think that Aqualad's mom and Black Manta were married?

We're dealing with that now.

No we're not. We're dealing with Nightwing being a bad leader rather than seeing him step up to leader and we're seeing Kaldur as a follower rather than Kaldur learn to adjust to not being leader anymore. As for Zatanna, we haven't even really seen her except for two short appearances.

That isn't a plotline, and they're dealing with them being "on a break" now.

I didn't say have the deal with being on a break I said GIVE THEM A BREAK. And we sure need that focus on them now that we're supposed to care about them.

And how long would that have taken him? Be on the hunt for, what, three weeks?


We are focussing on the hunt. And that plotline was clearly only introduced so we could catch up with it after five years of hunting.

It could take the whole season if need be. Have him find clues and deal with villains and have him travel cross-country and team up with other more obscure heroes. That would've been awesome rather than Cheshire just coming in and saying "Oh, BTW, it took me like a few weeks, the use of some debts and the burning of a few bridges, but I found where Real!Roy is. Isn't that nice after you spent years looking for him?"

They could have done that, yes. They can still do it now. What's the "loss" here?

Cheshire has already helped the heroes and has a lot of investment in the heroes winning since if they go down, so does Roy. Not much drama if the supposed villain is pretty much on the side of the Angels (even if it's for selfish reasons).

Ekil annataZ?

Ekil Annataz!

Could have, clearly had no interest in. "Red Tornado goes dating, eventually meets someone, falls in love, they decide to adopt after much reflection and them embark upon the lengthy and time-consuming process of adoption" is not only not thrilling storytelling in this kind of show, but is also the kind of thing you actually need a Time Skip for if you want to protrary it even remotely realistically or effectively.

Like almost every scene of Downtime until Manta show up near the end? Like M'gann and Superboy going to school in Targets? Like the therapy scenes in Disordered? Like the Halloween Party and secret discussion scene in Secrets? Like most of the first half of Misplaced? Like the League discussion in Agendas? Like discovery of Red's 'body' in Insecurity? Like most in Performance? Like the Roy scenes in Salvage? Like Jaime and his friend in Beneath? Like the Birthday and Bridal Shower in Satisfaction? Like Mal's romance with Karen in Darkest? Yes we never, ever have subplots without any action.

Oh, and Traya is a super-genius kid from Bialya, I think it'd be easy to fit in an episode where Queen Bee is abducting child geniuses to help The Light and have Red connect with her.

As for realistic, are we watching the same show? This is a show where a team of superpowered teenagers causes explosions at least once a month and are still considered covert.

They could've. They didn't want to. They didn't want to for a lot of the latter half of the first series, and when planning the second they decided to sideline him. That's not the time skip's fault, that's the writers.

And if it weren't for the time skip we could have easily had him go through an arc like the one where his powers start causing him physical pain and he has to decide whether he wants to still be a hero despite that.

Yes, but most of those just say "Do Something With That Character" - which is hardly an especially ripe mine of ideas.

Only one of them was 'do something with this character, you're exaggerating so that you look like you come out right when you're not. There are far more missed opportunities that came from how that time skip was handled, and plenty that were missed just from the time skip alone.

[JaggedFel]

Technically Kal'dur is a Black Ops Agent. Not a follower.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

It was a big part of Kaldur's character that he felt more like a soldier than a leader. This was shown in "Failsafe", outright stated in "Disordered", and his self-sacrificial nature is what got him in his current pickle.

Not everyone had equal-sized arcs or development. But to state that no main character had ANY development in season one would be hyperbole.

[GoldStarz]

It was a big part of Kaldur's character that he felt more like a soldier than a leader. This was shown in "Failsafe", outright stated in "Disordered", and his self-sacrificial nature is what got him in his current pickle.

Not everyone had equal-sized arcs or development. But to state that no main character had ANY development in season one would be hyperbole.

Development? I barely think Kaldur has character.

[Galosengen]

Again you guys are making a lot of suggestions that would make sense if shows like this had an indefinite number of episodes, but they don't. Again I would have loved to see all the developments that happened within the time skip that we were just told about but Weisman and co decided that they wanted to tell a story set over a specific length of time and that a time skip was the best way to be able to completely tell that story within the confines of only 46 definite episodes.

[Theozilla]

Development? I barely think Kaldur has character.

I think I (and others) just have to really agree to disagree with you on that.

[JaggedFel]

I would agree for S1 not so much for S2

[Badou]

Development? I barely think Kaldur has character.

He had some development in the tie-in comic. Focused on his family and him being away from his home, but they just didn't have the time to include it in the series. Since they weren't really given the amount of episodes they probably wanted. Though at least in season 2 he has become one of my favorite characters. I thought they have done a much better job at using him in the scenes he is in this go around.

[BraveSirRobin]

Kaldur had the least character development because there was the least that could be done. He was trained to be a soldier, not a leader, but had to step up to that plate, so he did, and would step down once Robin/Nightwing was ready. He missed Atlantis and his friends, but moved on. That was about all that you could do with him as he was, short of shoe-horning in another romance subplot which would unbalance the whole show on top of the Super Boy/Miss Martian relationship. Making him a double or even treble agent finally gives the guy some depth.

[Mr. Holmes]

Did you create a second account?

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Development? I barely think Kaldur has character.

He has a character. Just because he's self-restrained and more orderly and formal doesn't mean he lacks one.