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  1. #3556
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    I would have loved if they had stayed with the younger team, but I think the timeskip has been handled in a very interesting way, especially when viewed in tandem with the comic.

  2. #3557

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theozilla View Post
    The new characters are not main characters and have been broadcasted as main characters they are minor to major supporting characters like with JLU versus JL, Weisman and Vietti have stated this repeatedly before, the original 6 are still the main focus, the second season is just more plot heavy than the previous one.
    Well really id say the main focus at least so far is on the members of the original team Sans Wally who's pretty much a supporting character now and plus Blue Beetle and Impulse.

    Young Justice has always had some problems with how much screen time characters get, remember people complaining about how much focus Superboy and Miss Martian got and how little Aqualad and Kid Flash got?
    Last edited by Galosengen; 12-15-2012 at 11:05 PM.

  3. #3558
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Miss Martian and superboy did get unfair screen time. Miss Martian missed like 1 episode and Superboy never did during S1.

    Balance of screen time not a strong point. Still yeah Wally has been greatly diminished with impulse and blue beetle moving up to leading roles.
    Black History Month & 29 Days in February

  4. #3559
    Senior Member Theozilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galosengen View Post
    Well really id say the main focus at least so far is on the members of the original team Sans Wally who's pretty much a supporting character now and plus Blue Beetle and Impulse.

    Young Justice has always had some problems with how much screen time characters get, remember people complaining about how much focus Superboy and Miss Martian got and how little Aqualad and Kid Flash got?
    Greg Weisman always focuses on story and what fits best for it, perfectly balanced screen time is something that always places second in importance to the story for him.

  5. #3560

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Miss Martian and superboy did get unfair screen time. Miss Martian missed like 1 episode and Superboy never did during S1.

    Balance of screen time not a strong point. Still yeah Wally has been greatly diminished with impulse and blue beetle moving up to leading roles.
    Yeah I was implying people were right to complain, Miss Martian and Superboy did get too much screen time, and I say that as someone who has Miss Martian as my favorite on the show. Even now that they've had a bit of a cutback in screen time id still say they get the most of the original cast.

    But Yeah, its unfortunate that problem with balancing characters hasn't really changed but that's the way the show has pretty much always been and in the end Id rather not sacrifice the plot in the name of developing every supporting character.

  6. #3561

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    I cant see the teaser on my browser. Is it a video or set of images? Could someone post it here for me?
    Jean Grey : What makes you such a bitch, Emma?
    Emma Frost : Breeding, darling. Top class breeding.

  7. #3562
    Senior Member suss2it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    I must have missed an episode. But in season one, they do say he's Roy's uncle.

    In the comics, the modern day Guardian Kirby introduced in his Fourth World is the clone of the original Guardian, who was a WW2-era hero and Roy's great-uncle. (or great-great uncle?)
    You didn't miss anything, in the show itself they never really made it clear that Guardian is a clone of Roy too, Greg just clarified that on his website, which I think was a mistake. How hard would it've been to add a line or two explaining it in the show itself?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldStarz View Post
    In Salvage it was revealed he was a clone of Roy's uncle.
    No it wasn't.

  8. #3563
    Chirpy And Cheerful Claude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    I would have loved if they had stayed with the younger team, but I think the timeskip has been handled in a very interesting way, especially when viewed in tandem with the comic.
    The thing is, I think by the end of the first season they'd almost totally run out of things to do with the younger team. Aqualad was getting no development at all, Rocket was thrown in to add a new dynamic and never really came to anything - and all Superboy and Miss Martian had going on in terms of their development was a gradual progression to happy couplehood.

    Frankly, I think ending the first series on the double wham of "They all have complete faith in each other" and "They're every bit as valid as the Justice League" and then calling an end to that era was the best course of action. Skipping five years, and letting the characters stack up new history and experiences for us to gradually learn about was a very effective way of keeping these characters more interesting.

    Although I agree they probably brought in too many characters for them each to get effective development. An expanded roster of Batgirl, Wonder Girl, Lagoon Boy with Blue Beetle as "the newbie" would probably have been enough. I still have no idea who Mal Duncan is, or why I should care.

  9. #3564
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Yeah Aqualad and Robin got tossed a few episodes.

    Supeboy and Miss Martian dominated screen time with their relationship.

    Kid Flash also got tossed a few episodes but at least he had Artemis.

    Artemis got a complete story arc though and I think was the best developed character.
    Black History Month & 29 Days in February

  10. #3565
    You Can't Dye My Hair GoldStarz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claude View Post
    The thing is, I think by the end of the first season they'd almost totally run out of things to do with the younger team. Aqualad was getting no development at all, Rocket was thrown in to add a new dynamic and never really came to anything - and all Superboy and Miss Martian had going on in terms of their development was a gradual progression to happy couplehood.
    So then they had a lot left to do like:

    • Give Aqualad development
    • Establish Rocket's personality
    • Go through Rocket's teen pregnancy arc
    • Continue Zatanna's arc to save her father
    • Have Robin deal with becoming team leader
    • Have Aqualad deal with stepping down from team leader
    • Give Superboy and M'gann a break or focus on their realationships with their schoolmates
    • Have Clone!Roy focus on his hunt for Real!Roy (without a time skip)
    • Give Artemis an arc trying to deal with her conflicting emotions with her sister
    • Have the Team get new member and actually focus on them
    • Give Red Tornado an arc where he tries to adapt to human society, meet and fall in love with Kathy Sutton, and adopt Traya
    • DO SOMETHING WITH WALLY


    I think that covered everyone in the main cast at least once.

  11. #3566

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    Almost none of that has anything to do with the main plot though, you only have a limited number of episodes and you don't know how many you are gonna get.

    So while I would have loved to see stuff like Red Arrows descent into total obsession. Aqualad having a real character arc, Mal and Karen discovering that their good friends Conner and Megan are Superheros, Superboy and Superman bonding, really more stuff with all the cast and their mentors. I would have loved to have gotten some more backstory and maybe some flashbacks especially for Aqualad, Miss Martian (these two largely because hey cool exotic locales!) and Artemis (SportsDad).

    But ultimately I am happier to get a complete story and seeing as the show is almost certainly getting renewed I don't think we would have gotten that had S2 been basically the character development season.

  12. #3567
    Senior Member Theozilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldStarz View Post
    So then they had a lot left to do like:

    • Give Aqualad development
    • Establish Rocket's personality
    • Go through Rocket's teen pregnancy arc
    • Continue Zatanna's arc to save her father
    • Have Robin deal with becoming team leader
    • Have Aqualad deal with stepping down from team leader
    • Give Superboy and M'gann a break or focus on their realationships with their schoolmates
    • Have Clone!Roy focus on his hunt for Real!Roy (without a time skip)
    • Give Artemis an arc trying to deal with her conflicting emotions with her sister
    • Have the Team get new member and actually focus on them
    • Give Red Tornado an arc where he tries to adapt to human society, meet and fall in love with Kathy Sutton, and adopt Traya
    • DO SOMETHING WITH WALLY


    I think that covered everyone in the main cast at least once.
    -They already gave Aqualad character development in Season 1, they explored his insecurities and progression with being the Team leader, he was far more passive in the beginning of the season and became far more assertive by the end.
    Rocket was/is a supporting character, not a main character, she was given characterization not a character arc. Same with Zatanna.
    Robin/Nightwing's issues with leadership was explored throughout the first seasons and is continuing in Invasion.
    The focus of the show is the black-ops-esque qualities of the Team not civilian life.
    The Time Skip was planned from day one it was unavoidable:
    http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/....php?qid=16378
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Weisman View Post
    You must see that even if Brandon and I suddenly agreed that the timeskip was a mistake - and we don't - there was literally NO WAY at the time you posted this that we could have taken it back. Not unless you didn't want to see ANY episodes for another year.
    That's not me being an "Apologist". That's just me stating facts. We did the timeskip. We liked the timeskip. By the time you found out about it, it was way too late to do anything but go forward. WAY to late.
    And of course, as of this moment, literally the entire first two seasons are now in the can. DONE. FINITO. No turning back now. And by the way, I wouldn't want to.
    Response recorded on October 25, 2012
    http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/....php?qid=17165
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Weisman View Post
    Question received on Mon, October 01, 2012 11:59:39 AM
    Mandy writes...
    Dear Greg,
    This is something that has be bothering a lot of fans. You and Brandon have repeatedly stated that you planned the timeskip because you wanted to see the characters growing up. But a lot of people on Tumblr noted that by having the time gap, we never got to see the characters actually grow up. They were already grown up by Season 2.
    Greg responds...
    Well, I believe you're paraphrasing our statements, and then holding us to a literal interpretation of YOUR paraphrase, but I see your point, and if we were guaranteed twelve seasons in advance, I might agree. But of course, we weren't. The only way to show the true change between child and adult was to jump ahead. Otherwise, we'd still be seeing incremental change between teen and oh-so-slightly-older teen.
    Response recorded on November 29, 2012
    Artemis already had character arc dealing with her families criminal history, her father was much bigger issue/problem than her sister.
    New Team members are not main characters, they have characterization to minor arcs. Red Tornado and the adult mentors are not the focus of the series.
    http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/....php?qid=16154
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Weisman View Post
    as I've stated before, the focus on Season Two is on STORY. Characterization is of course ALWAYS important to us, but you'll have to get it on the fly this season. We've got a BIG story to tell, and fewer episodes and thus less room to dedicate to character study.
    http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/....php?qid=16868
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Weisman View Post
    I have no interest in sacrificing character development, but I do think Season Two is more plot driven, and with only twenty episodes - as opposed to Season One's 26 - there were fewer opportunities to go off the reservation, so to speak, and do PURELY character-focused shows. But you'll still get plenty of character development throughout the season, and if you want more - I highly recommend our companion comic book.
    Wally's development in season 1 focused on his maturation as superhero and his insecurities/feelings towards Artemis.

  13. #3568
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Aqualad got screwed on the romance front and hardly was more assertive mostly because he never did much during the second half of the first season. He is way better in S2 then he ever was in S1.
    Black History Month & 29 Days in February

  14. #3569
    Senior Member Theozilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    Aqualad got screwed on the romance front and hardly was more assertive mostly because he never did much during the second half of the first season. He is way better in S2 then he ever was in S1.
    Yeah he was unlucky with romance, but I really disagree that he was not more assertive later in Season 1, Alpha Male is a great example of him leading. Failsafe+Disordered was a great exploration of Kaldur's positives and negatives as a leader and why at the time he was the best choice as a leader. Misplaced, Insecurity, Usual Suspects, and Auld Acquaintance had Aqualad acting confidently and successfully as a leader. I love his Invasion role even more but I simply disagree that he had no arc in Season 1.

  15. #3570
    You Can't Dye My Hair GoldStarz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theozilla View Post
    -They already gave Aqualad character development in Season 1, they explored his insecurities and progression with being the Team leader, he was far more passive in the beginning of the season and became far more assertive by the end.
    Aqualad was assertive for one episode, then he just went back to being pretty passive and got very little development despite taking up a lot of screen time.

    Rocket was/is a supporting character, not a main character, she was given characterization not a character arc. Same with Zatanna.
    1. No she wasn't she just a "What's that? This happened?" for people who were dumb enough to join in the LAST TWO EPISODES of the Season. A bit of sass a personality does not make.
    2. Zatanna was given characterization, was further developed over the course of the season, and was given a arc in showing her cope with the loss of her father which was never given a proper conclusion due to the time skip.

    Robin/Nightwing's issues with leadership was explored throughout the first seasons and is continuing in Invasion.
    It showed him showing that he was reluctant to be leader. Season 2 shows what an idiotic leader he is.

    The Time Skip was planned from day one it was unavoidable
    And Catherine Cobert was supposed to appear in Season 1, plans can change.

    Artemis already had character arc dealing with her families criminal history, her father was much bigger issue/problem than her sister.
    Which is why she let her sister escape when she found out she was Cheshire. Riiiiiight. No, Artemis clearly did actually love her sister, as Cheshire loved Artemis. Sportsmaster, though, both girls seem to resent him. So there's plenty you could do with Arty still loving her sister even though she's a villain.

    New Team members are not main characters, they have characterization to minor arcs. Red Tornado and the adult mentors are not the focus of the series.
    Then why was Billy focused on so much?

    Wally's development in season 1 focused on his maturation as superhero and his insecurities/feelings towards Artemis.
    That happened in one episode with no consequences, he wasn't being immature as much as he had wanted to actually celebrate his birthday fighting alongside his mentor and got stuck doing what seemed like a menial job.

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