Do you like Brian Azzarello's Wonder Woman?

[psyshot]

But don't you think it's a pretty big leap to go from checking to see if Poseidon does show up to trusting the stranger's plan in making false deals with Poseidon/Hades?

Exactly. And another convenient plot point is that Poseidon and Hades are randomly meeting in London, the exact place where our heroes are.

Good point about being born between two raids - I suspect the Amazons would find that a little odd. But, wouldn't they have noticed a baby bump? The 'clay' origin didn't include a pregnancy.

Yes, I already wrote it about the possibility to hide the pregnancy on a small island would be really difficult.
We're also not sure about the power level of the amazons, so to say that the clay origin was to explain her powers, it would mean that Hippolyta would have to know in advance that Diana would be much more stronger than the rest of the Amazons. I know that all demigods in Myths are stronger than other human beings, but the amazons are not supposed to be your regular human being to start with, so how strong Hippolyta expected Diana to be? And she was lucky she didn't gave birth to a boy. Can you imagine the scene?

[americanwonder]

Exactly. And another convenient plot point is that Poseidon and Hades are randomly meeting in London, the exact place where our heroes are.

Well, London is a happenin' city. It makes it very convenient to find your long lost brother from a father you didn't know you had if you both live in the same country, right? Or maybe they all got dumped there after Flashpoint?

Yes, I already wrote it about the possibility to hide the pregnancy on a small island would be really difficult.

All the more difficult for the Queen, I would suspect. But as Queen, maybe she has a summer palace where she can go for a year and not be noticed?

We're also not sure about the power level of the amazons, so to say that the clay origin was to explain her powers,

The Amazon (who is so boring I never remember her name) gave her a better fight than the centaurs, so I don't really see this Diana's powers really standing out thus far anyway.

[RandomFalls]

Exactly. And another convenient plot point is that Poseidon and Hades are randomly meeting in London, the exact place where our heroes are.


Yes, I already wrote it about the possibility to hide the pregnancy on a small island would be really difficult.
We're also not sure about the power level of the amazons, so to say that the clay origin was to explain her powers, it would mean that Hippolyta would have to know in advance that Diana would be much more stronger than the rest of the Amazons. I know that all demigods in Myths are stronger than other human beings, but the amazons are not supposed to be your regular human being to start with, so how strong Hippolyta expected Diana to be? And she was lucky she didn't gave birth to a boy. Can you imagine the scene?

From the looks of it though all demi gods have powers of some description. Lennox doesn't appear to have super strength but he does appear to have skin as hard as stone... or that is stone. So it wouldn't be a worry that Diana would be super strong, but that she'd have some kind of power that differs her from the other Amazons. And what if she hadn't turned out completely human looking? That would have been weird to explain.

But, I think Hippolyta had to lie because the part in Hermes story about Diana's "birth" where hippolyta was barren was true. Hippolyta couldn't have children, and Zeus "fixed" that for her, and it would have been a tad strange that the infertile lady was suddenly pregnant. But that's just the way I'm seeing it. We can but only speculate at this moment, I'm sure that Azzarello has a plan. Please, say you have a plan Azzarello!

[Auguste Dupin]

But don't you think it's a pretty big leap to go from checking to see if Poseidon does show up to trusting the stranger's plan in making false deals with Poseidon/Hades?



Like you, I don't doubt Zeus can hide from the pool, and I can buy Hera not checking the Amazon's every movement. But once Hera is on her warpath, how does Lennox tell Diana his plan without Hera knowing? Like you, I got nothing. Just feels forced, so far, without much explantion.



Good point about being born between two raids - I suspect the Amazons would find that a little odd. But, wouldn't they have noticed a baby bump? The 'clay' origin didn't include a pregnancy.

- Well, what was she supposed to do? Once Poseidon is here, it isn't such a strech to assume that the entire story is sort of true. She can't fight Hades and Poseidon at the same time, so the best she can do is hoping Lennox is fighting Hades on his side. Besides, Lennox is not just some random stranger, he's a stranger that have information he shouldn't have ("daughter of zeus"), and some magical mean that might explain it ("the winds told me"). Once the information is proven correct, she doesn't have any reason to believe Lennon is bullshiting her.

-Maybe the pool has some limitations (batteries?). Or maybe she actually can't spy on fellow gods and the point of blinding Hera was to protect Zola even when there isn't Hermes or Wonder Woman around. But for this, I don't have any evidence so never mind.

-It depends. Maybe Hyppolita hided somewhere away from the Amazons with the excuse "I'm praying the Gods to give me a baby" for the time of her pregnancy. Or maybe she wasn't on Paradise Island at the time (she sure didn't seem to be there when she was "fighting" Zeus). And maybe god induced pregnancies are faster than usual ones (I mean, I don't know for how long Zola has been in Hades, but she's sure showing at the moment).

[Dr. Hurt]

No. She doesn't seem powerful enough. I want WW to be on the level of Superman (pre-DCnU, I have no idea what Supes power levels are now), she seems like she's on the level of a low- mid-tier super hero. Maybe like a Hawkman. In JL, she was carrying a ship I think and flying, so that was cool but even there she seems weak.

Her character also doesn't seem like herself. I also like more inner dialogue and set-up boxes. More WRITING!!!

Have you been reading any Superman books of the new 52? Because i have and i dont remember any huge displays of power. And yet people still think he's Superman strong and powerful.

But for WW it's nag-nag-nag-whine "she's not powerful you guys!"
Did she do any huge feats of strength in the Circle? Were you guys whining back then? I bet not.

[brettc1]

Have you been reading any Superman books of the new 52? Because i have and i dont remember any huge displays of power. And yet people still think he's Superman strong and powerful.

But for WW it's nag-nag-nag-whine "she's not powerful you guys!"
Did she do any huge feats of strength in the Circle? Were you guys whining back then? I bet not.

There was some discussion about her fight with the gorillas in the first issue. Basically that she seemed Spider-Man strong, not WW strong. And it seemed unlikley that the nazis were all anywhere near her strength level - otherwise their fight would have razed Themyscira to the ground.

This board was not around then but it was discussed at the WW forums at the old DC boards.

[wagthedog]

Have you been reading any Superman books of the new 52? Because i have and i dont remember any huge displays of power. And yet people still think he's Superman strong and powerful.

But for WW it's nag-nag-nag-whine "she's not powerful you guys!"
Did she do any huge feats of strength in the Circle? Were you guys whining back then? I bet not.

Dr Hurt, why don't you let the issue rest. We realize by now (us posters) that you don't care about power levels and you care about the story, and apparently Azz is doing everything that you have ever dreamed of storytelling wise with respect to Wonder Woman.

Others, like me, want Wonder Woman to be strong, powerful--TO FLY--and also a good story. After all she is supposed to be a super hero (well, at least in Justice League, not so much in her own book yet) and superheros for the most part have superpowers and many are defined by the powers they have. Many of us have yet to see any great feats of strength or skill in her own book, let alone her power TO FLY. Sure, in Justice League it appears she flys, but why hasn't Azz shown this ability once in the 8 issues we have so far?

[Dr. Hurt]

Dr Hurt, why don't you let the issue rest. We realize by now (us posters) that you don't care about power levels and you care about the story, and apparently Azz is doing everything that you have ever dreamed of storytelling wise with respect to Wonder Woman.

Others, like me, want Wonder Woman to be strong, powerful--TO FLY--and also a good story. After all she is supposed to be a super hero (well, at least in Justice League, not so much in her own book yet) and superheros for the most part have superpowers and many are defined by the powers they have. Many of us have yet to see any great feats of strength or skill in her own book, let alone her power TO FLY. Sure, in Justice League it appears she flys, but why hasn't Azz shown this ability once in the 8 issues we have so far?

You completely missed my point. I can understand if you want to see all those feats of power, i'd like that too (even though i dont miss them as much). However the fact that you havent seen them already doesnt mean that she's depowered. And i gave you the example of Superman who hasnt done anything spectacular so far in the DCnU. But there isnt anyone calling him depowered.

[brettc1]

You completely missed my point. I can understand if you want to see all those feats of power, i'd like that too (even though i dont miss them as much). However the fact that you havent seen them already doesnt mean that she's depowered. And i gave you the example of Superman who hasnt done anything spectacular so far in the DCnU. But there isnt anyone calling him depowered.

I guess folks are thinking about Clark's taking apart Green Lantern and the way Batman talks up how awesome he [Superman] is in the first 2 issues of JL. He also goes toe to toe with Darksied in a slugging match.

Now Diana does so as well, but mostly she uses the sword, not her fists. She takes out one of Darkseid's eyes, but so does Aquaman. Aquaman is stronger than a human but nowhere hear Clark's level, so Diana's feat of blinding him with a sword seems far less impressive than Clark pummeling him barehanded.

So the irony here is by giving Diana a sword to make her seem more impressive or dangerous, in some peoples eyes it actually compromises how strong she comes across visually.

[Wulfmir]

I guess folks are thinking about Clark's taking apart Green Lantern and the way Batman talks up how awesome he [Superman] is in the first 2 issues of JL. He also goes toe to toe with Darksied in a slugging match.

Now Diana does so as well, but mostly she uses the sword, not her fists. She takes out one of Darkseid's eyes, but so does Aquaman. Aquaman is stronger than a human but nowhere hear Clark's level, so Diana's feat of blinding him with a sword seems far less impressive than Clark pummeling him barehanded.

So the irony here is by giving Diana a sword to make her seem more impressive or dangerous, in some peoples eyes it actually compromises how strong she comes across visually.

Let's not conveniently forget Superman praising her for her strength. That is more than good enough.

[Wulfmir]

OMG. It's a total blowout, not even close--LOL!

Oh, and I voted yes...of course.

Not the first time nor this will be the last I'm sure.

[Auguste Dupin]

Let's not conveniently forget Superman praising her for her strength. That is more than good enough.

Or her being able to block Darkseid's Omega beams, something even Superman hasn't been able to do.

[wagthedog]

You completely missed my point. I can understand if you want to see all those feats of power, i'd like that too (even though i dont miss them as much). However the fact that you havent seen them already doesnt mean that she's depowered. And i gave you the example of Superman who hasnt done anything spectacular so far in the DCnU. But there isnt anyone calling him depowered.

Again, I am only talking about Azz's Wonder Woman now--so far she can't fly and the threats (unless we are talking Gods) have not made her work much of a sweat. Her strength feats have been knocking down trees and what some considered awesome was a headbutt.

Up till now, since we haven't seen her fly under Azz, and for that I would call her depowered--until I see otherwise in her own book. I can't trust the Justice League just yet because why did she need a Green Lantern taxi in the previous issue?

As for Superman, I don't buy his individual titles, I have only seen him in Justice League, and as Brett pointed out in an earlier post he was pretty impressive so far.

[Dr. Hurt]

I guess folks are thinking about Clark's taking apart Green Lantern and the way Batman talks up how awesome he [Superman] is in the first 2 issues of JL. He also goes toe to toe with Darksied in a slugging match.

Now Diana does so as well, but mostly she uses the sword, not her fists. She takes out one of Darkseid's eyes, but so does Aquaman. Aquaman is stronger than a human but nowhere hear Clark's level, so Diana's feat of blinding him with a sword seems far less impressive than Clark pummeling him barehanded.

So the irony here is by giving Diana a sword to make her seem more impressive or dangerous, in some peoples eyes it actually compromises how strong she comes across visually.

I dont think Aquaman is that far behind in terms of strength.

But i think my point still stands. Just because you havent seen something it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. If anything the Greek gods are a thousand times more powerful than Brainiac, those deep sea monsters, or Black Manta.

[wagthedog]

Or her being able to block Darkseid's Omega beams, something even Superman hasn't been able to do.

Blocking the beams was impressive. Again, this happened in a JL book versus her own.

If I remember right, she has only blocked/try to block two different attacks in her own book--the first being the arrow which threw her to the ground, and then the love bullets which she couldn't block.

And someone mentioned that Superman said she was strong. While good of him to acknowledge that, it doesn't tell us much except that she has superstrength. Superman may have been surprised to see a woman that could knock heads with the parademons. Since this was their first meeting 5 years back, maybe he hasn't seen anyone besides supergirl with more than normal strength.