Do you like Brian Azzarello's Wonder Woman?

[brettc1]

I kinda think of myself as a feminist. I take that back, I think of myself as a person who believes in the inherent equality of all human beings and that women across the world are being oppressed in various degrees. I think it's kinda funny that people are taking such a stance on the Amazons that they're somehow offensive... They are AMAZONS! They're not hippies. They're fierce warrior women and even if they're not entirely horrible they ought to be at least just a bit threatening.

I completely agree with you. I think the question is whether you want them threatening like Black Canary or threatening like Granny Goodness?

[Atomcrush]

I completely agree with you. I think the question is whether you want them threatening like Black Canary or threatening like Granny Goodness?

They probably have more in common with Granny Goodness than Black Canary. So it stands to reason that they might act a bit like Granny Goodness at times. As an aside, I will always - perhaps sadly - associate Granny Goodness with that hilariously butch, mannish, tranny mess from the Apocalypse film. Kick her in her junk to take her down.

[slvn]

Hermes?
Seems to be the driving force of the story, so far.
Everyone else seem to be pawns.

But just imagine the boards if Hermes' and Diana's roles had been reversed:

Issue One: "WTF? Diana can't even stop an arrow, and she needs Hermes to save her IN HER OWN BOOK?"
Issue 2: "I can't believe the "main character" spends the whole time recuperating. How much panel time does she get? Where the heck is she when Hermes confronts Strife at the end?"

And so on.

Master manipulator? Maybe. Main character? No.

[SteveGus]

They probably have more in common with Granny Goodness than Black Canary. So it stands to reason that they might act a bit like Granny Goodness at times. As an aside, I will always - perhaps sadly - associate Granny Goodness with that hilariously butch, mannish, tranny mess from the Apocalypse film. Kick her in her junk to take her down.

Casting Ed Asner as Granny Goodness was a stroke of genius in the DCAU. That version also strikes me as reasonably faithful to Kirby.

[brettc1]

They probably have more in common with Granny Goodness than Black Canary. So it stands to reason that they might act a bit like Granny Goodness at times. As an aside, I will always - perhaps sadly - associate Granny Goodness with that hilariously butch, mannish, tranny mess from the Apocalypse film. Kick her in her junk to take her down.

My point though is both Canary and GG are threatening - neither one is a person you would want to mess with. But Canary is threatening without being a total psycho sadist who murders people without a second thought, and the Amazons dont have to be like that either to inspire awe.

Artemis was a badass lady who could put most of the non-metas in the DCU in hospital [and some of the powered ones too] and she never had to kill a naked sailor to get respect.

[slvn]

I guess, to me, the question could be whether you want them threatening in a contemporary, "realistic" and righteous way like Black Canary or in a mythic, primal way like the Sirens--or like the Amazons of legend. Or, better yet, at what point in the story you want them which way? I could happy with almost anything along the spectrum, depending on how the story unfolds and especially on whether Diana remains heroic.

I think having them start out like stories sailors frighten each other with, as Azz put it, is potentially interesting because it raises the intriguing questions of how a Wonder Woman form that background got to be compassionate hero and how she will respond to the truth about her people. There's a lot of story potential in those questions. Later, under the influence of Diana and the right combination of circumstances, we can see other, less monstrous and more human sides of these women, and we can see them (or some of them) evolve.

[brettc1]

I guess, to me, the question could be whether you want them threatening in a contemporary, "realistic" and righteous way like Black Canary or in a mythic, primal way like the Sirens--or like the Amazons of legend. Or, better yet, at what point in the story you want them which way? I could happy with almost anything along the spectrum, depending on how the story unfolds and especially on whether Diana remains heroic.

I think having them start out like stories sailors frighten each other with, as Azz put it, is potentially interesting because it raises the intriguing questions of how a Wonder Woman form that background got to be compassionate hero and how she will respond to the truth about her people. There's a lot of story potential in those questions. Later, under the influence of Diana and the right combination of circumstances, we can see other, less monstrous and more human sides of these women, and we can see them (or some of them) evolve.

The thingn is, this is nothing new. Perez did this decades ago with the Bana Amazons, and Loebs expanded on it with the character of Artemis. But the difference is they didnt destroy the original idea of Paradise Island to achieve it.

From Azz' interview a big part of this story is to pull WW apart and then put her back together again. He also says they are not even close to the second stage fo that process. And for me it is just too drawn out and painful to be worth reading month to month. Mabye I will pick it up in trade form or back issues, but I am not going to sit through another six months of deconstructing everything around the characters mythos that appeals to me.

And maybe this is something that I am only now realizing - I am a fan not just of the character but of the book as well. And WW, as a book, even in its darkest stories still had for me an upbeat feel to it. It was hopeful. This is just, for me, endlessly depressing.

[yanapryde]

Its been suggested by many of my friends, as well as LCS employees that this installment of Wonder Woman has brought a dramatic increase in new readers and promoted discussion and/or awareness of the fledgling Trinity member.

I've always felt that Diana was unsung and underappreciated and fell victim to directionless creative teams. She's one of those figures that seems to have struggled finding balance between the two worlds she exists in (modern and mythic)

I've been interested in Wonder Woman and her roots for a long time but nothing ever stuck for me until this run. I've found myself invested, both with the story and the creative aesthetics.
The tweaking of her look, for example, is a huge improvement IMHO, as well as the interpretation of the deities she engages with.
I'm very excited with this new direction.

[slvn]

The thingn is, this is nothing new. Perez did this decades ago with the Bana Amazons, and Loebs expanded on it with the character of Artemis. But the difference is they didnt destroy the original idea of Paradise Island to achieve it.

Right. But without changing the main Amazons, you don't get a lot of the emotional impact on Diana or on the reader, for better or worse.

From Azz' interview a big part of this story is to pull WW apart and then put her back together again.

Yes, and that makes sense to me, though it's possible that he could tear her apart too much by having her (not her family) do something fundamentally or gratuitously evil. So far, he hasn't done anything like that, in my view. I can understand and respect your feeling that what he's doing to the Amazons is too painful, but to me, it's just a good very good horror story. I hope you'll like it in the trade or back issues.

[GEMINUS]

I love Buffy, Xena, and Wonder Woman. I love them all equally and for different reasons. Buffy was goofy, relatable, and completely fierce. Xena was a twisted, tortured soul in search for redemption. Wonder Woman was well, a wonder. She was regal, powerful, composed, and determined. She was a SUPERHERO, not a Greek tragic hero. I can see how Wonder Woman needed to be sullied a bit, but I think this current run is going a little too far. I know I should be patient, but I am frustrated by the lack of triumph on Diana's part. All I see is break down and misery. 8 issues in, and I am still waiting for a shining moment of glory. If this were a Xena comic book, I would be fine with all this because it fits the tone of the character. However, this is supposed to be Wonder Woman, and right now I think it is more like Warrior Woman than anything else.

I find it sad that in order for Diana to become popular and mainstream, her entire history, tone, and setting had to be dramatically altered. I always wished Diana received the recognition she deserved, I just never imagined the cost.

Still it is a well written book and some interesting ideas have been implemented. The art is growing on me VERY slowly. I will give the current creative team the props they are due, but I can�t help wishing they had stopped after Issue #4.
.

[Mr. Holmes]

I love Buffy, Xena, and Wonder Woman. I love them all equally and for different reasons. Buffy was goofy, relatable, and completely fierce. Xena was a twisted, tortured soul in search for redemption. Wonder Woman was well, a wonder. She was regal, powerful, composed, and determined.

...That's exactly what we're getting in this book.

I find it sad that in order for Diana to become popular and mainstream, her entire history, tone, and setting had to be dramatically altered. I always wished Diana received the recognition she deserved, I just never imagined the cost.

It's the truth. The character has never consistently been a hit.

[cgh]

Its been suggested by many of my friends, as well as LCS employees that this installment of Wonder Woman has brought a dramatic increase in new readers and promoted discussion and/or awareness of the fledgling Trinity member.

I've always felt that Diana was unsung and underappreciated and fell victim to directionless creative teams. She's one of those figures that seems to have struggled finding balance between the two worlds she exists in (modern and mythic)

I've been interested in Wonder Woman and her roots for a long time but nothing ever stuck for me until this run. I've found myself invested, both with the story and the creative aesthetics.
The tweaking of her look, for example, is a huge improvement IMHO, as well as the interpretation of the deities she engages with.
I'm very excited with this new direction.

Yes, your experience is pretty much the norm. WW is actually interesting now, possibly for the first time ever. Unfortunately, there are a lot of vocal complainers on this board that skew reality a bit.

[GEMINUS]

...That's exactly what we're getting in this book.


It's the truth. The character has never consistently been a hit.

Diana may still be largely the same, but I have yet to see the wonder. All I see is a nice young woman with a few good moves. In my opinion, all of Diana's shining hero moments have be in JL.

[brettc1]

Yes, your experience is pretty much the norm. WW is actually interesting now, possibly for the first time ever. Unfortunately, there are a lot of vocal complainers on this board that skew reality a bit.

Say rather that reality of whether something is good or not is entirely in the perspective of the beholder. For example you statement that WW is interesting now is clearly true for you but not for me. I was talking today with a friend who has become less interested in The Big Bang Theory because of all the relationship stuff, but others would disagree with him that is detracts from the appeal.

And is a provable fact that threads were everyone agrees on how good something is dont last very long [I've tried it]. Protracted discussion depends on a level of disagreement.

[GEMINUS]

The thingn is, this is nothing new. Perez did this decades ago with the Bana Amazons, and Loebs expanded on it with the character of Artemis. But the difference is they didnt destroy the original idea of Paradise Island to achieve it.

From Azz' interview a big part of this story is to pull WW apart and then put her back together again. He also says they are not even close to the second stage fo that process. And for me it is just too drawn out and painful to be worth reading month to month. Mabye I will pick it up in trade form or back issues, but I am not going to sit through another six months of deconstructing everything around the characters mythos that appeals to me.

And maybe this is something that I am only now realizing - I am a fan not just of the character but of the book as well. And WW, as a book, even in its darkest stories still had for me an upbeat feel to it. It was hopeful. This is just, for me, endlessly depressing.

I am all for pulling her apart, but I am getting frustrated waiting for her to be put back together again. All I can hope is that the payoff for all this is worth it.