REVIEW: "Wonder Woman" #8

[brettc1]

No "sorry" needed, Speedy.



Yes! Yes! Yes! They make her Hippolyta's biological daughter but take away their likeness? That's just wrong! Where the sense in that?

In the issue where we see Zeus he has black hair. So clearly the implication is that if her mother is blonde and Diana has black hair then it must be because she had sex with someone with dark hair.

DC "See. SEE. She has black hair. Her dad must have black hair and thats the guy her mother did it with! Her mother had sex and the Amazons hate men - JUST like in the stories!"

BRETT "In the stories didn't Zeus have red hair?"

DC "SHUT UP!"

[jestersjoker]

Shame on you Hippolyta queen of the Amazons
First you willingly make love to your half uncle Hercules and then you willingly make love to your grandfather Zeus, shame, shame on you. Betraying the goddess Hera which you claim to worship, the goddess you worship and you continually ask favors for.
Will the travesty and horror ever end????

Oh ya, and shame on you Hippolyta for making love to your own father Ares the god of war in Wonder Woman’s recent animation movie.

Hippolyta you also made love to Hades in Justice League Unlimited Zeus’s brother. Shame on you Hippolyta.

Then there is Wild Cat. And What about Nubia? If Diana is no longer made of clay either is Nubia so who is Nubia’s father???

Shame on you Hippolyta, Shame on you.

[Sacred Knight]

Pretty much nothing at this point the suggest any of the old Hercules stories remain. So its really not accurate to claim this Hippolyta has been with both Hercules and Zeus. Not impossible, but far from a certainty.

And even if so, no big deal, in my view. "Icky" sexual escapades is part and parcel to Greek mythology.

[Fate's Faith]

Whoa... have I been reading comments that the Amazons shouldn't follow their mythic roots but now the family tree of the gods must?!

[Gaelforce]

Whoa... have I been reading comments that the Amazons shouldn't follow their mythic roots but now the family tree of the gods must?!

It does seem to be something of a contradiction I see a lot.

On the one hand, these are the Amazons of myth, so they're supposed to be dark, barbaric and unpleasant.

Buuuuuut the rest of the mythology can be reinterpreted any way the author pleases.

Whereas I do agree with the second statement, I think it should have been applied to the first as well. I don't see any need to cling to the 'but that's the way they were in mythology!' to defend something people don't like, but then throw out mythology when it comes to the things people do enjoy in the book.

[slvn]

It does seem to be something of a contradiction I see a lot.

On the one hand, these are the Amazons of myth, so they're supposed to be dark, barbaric and unpleasant.

Speaking for myself, I don't at all think that the Amazons must be or are "supposed to be" like the mythic version. I just think it's one interesting angle to explore--especially if it's followed by redemption. I recognize that a lot of people don't like it, and it's fine not to like; I'm just saying i find it interesting.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Speaking for myself, I don't at all think that the Amazons must be or are "supposed to be" like the mythic version. I just think it's one interesting angle to explore--especially if it's followed by redemption. I recognize that a lot of people don't like it, and it's fine not to like; I'm just saying i find it interesting.

...and maybe it's because the Amazons are more "real" historically thereby allowing the writer to interpret them according to wot the history books say...and the Gods...like all mythological Deities...are "intangible" and as such are more open to very loose and varied interpretation.

[slvn]

BRETT "In the stories didn't Zeus have red hair?"

Out of curiosity, where in the ancient Greek stories is Zeus described as having red hair?

[americanwonder]

...and maybe it's because the Amazons are more "real" historically thereby allowing the writer to interpret them according to wot the history books say...and the Gods...like all mythological Deities...are "intangible" and as such are more open to very loose and varied interpretation.

Interesting way of looking at it. But, I'm not buying. I'm guessing you put "real" in quotes because, to my knowledge, we don't actually have a lot of historical evidence about "real" Amazons. Still, what evidence we do have, and even some versions of the stories, doesn't really fit all that well with these Amazons - so, I don't feel like the depiction here is holding to their mythic roots; at best, it's picking which stories it wants to favor over others. Which, depending on one's view, may be a good choice storywise - here, I'm just saying I don't see it as very historically accurate.

[Rob_Olivera]

Interesting way of looking at it. But, I'm not buying. I'm guessing you put "real" in quotes because, to my knowledge, we don't actually have a lot of historical evidence about "real" Amazons. Still, what evidence we do have, and even some versions of the stories, doesn't really fit all that well with these Amazons - so, I don't feel like the depiction here is holding to their mythic roots; at best, it's picking which stories it wants to favor over others. Which, depending on one's view, may be a good choice storywise - here, I'm just saying I don't see it as very historically accurate.

I'm like a really lazy guy when it comes to google, but I thought this was a fun interpretation of what Greek Amazons would be like:

http://www.greeka.com/greece-myths/amazons.htm




Greece Myths: The legendary Amazons
*
"...The myth says that they were the most powerful women ever. In the ancient times, they were said to be a tribe of independent, mighty women who had rebelled against the men-dominated society. They used to live in isolate places, exclude men from their society and make wars against them. Today, we can call them as the first extreme feminists...."

I'd say this comes somewhat close to this batch.

[americanwonder]

I'm like a really lazy guy when it comes to google, ...

I'm not just a lazy google-r, I'm just lazy.

Greece Myths: The legendary Amazons
*
"...The myth says that they were the most powerful women ever. In the ancient times, they were said to be a tribe of independent, mighty women who had rebelled against the men-dominated society. They used to live in isolate places, exclude men from their society and make wars against them. Today, we can call them as the first extreme feminists...."

I'd say this comes somewhat close to this batch.

Sure, this version is somewhat close. My point is that even the myths have differing versions; it's not a singular vision of what the Amazons were like. So, to say they are closer to the myths, well, which one?

eta: Not to mention, that the stories told about them were told from an outsider's perspective. Historically, outsider's haven't had the most reliably accurate perspective.

Of course, it can be argued that any of the mythical versions are closer to Azzarello's Amazons than Marston's, because Marston's were intentially so radically different - I'm pretty sure none of the mythical versions ever invented a purple healing ray. ;)

[Dr. Hurt]

Speaking for myself, I don't at all think that the Amazons must be or are "supposed to be" like the mythic version. I just think it's one interesting angle to explore--especially if it's followed by redemption. I recognize that a lot of people don't like it, and it's fine not to like; I'm just saying i find it interesting.

I agree with this.

@AmericanWonder i think you're splitting hairs. The point is that the Amazons are a much more grounded and realistic society than before. It's everything about them. What they wear, the city of Themisc, the flaws of their society, etc. It's not about interpreting the myth to the letter, like you said there are many versions, but this feels like a more grounded approach no matter how you look at it.

[Rob_Olivera]

I agree with this.

@AmericanWonder i think you're splitting hairs. The point is that the Amazons are a much more grounded and realistic society than before. It's everything about them. What they wear, the city of Themisc, the flaws of their society, etc. It's not about interpreting the myth to the letter, like you said there are many versions, but this feels like a more grounded approach no matter how you look at it.

I think it's a more "realistic" approach to the Amazons at any rate. IF there were real Amazons, and IF they did seclude themselves from socienty for 3K years, and IF they lived the way they do, then THIS is what it would probably be like IRL. This style of life would have remained stagnant for all that time.

The Purple Ray Invisible Plane High Tech Amazons are nice too, but are probably not a "realistic" interpretation of such a society. It all boils down to what you want to read on your time off.

[americanwonder]

That's a lot of "IFs" to be "realistic," no? I don't see this as "realistic," I see it as an exaggeration in a negative direction. History is not full of real groups of female warriors running about killing men. This may feel "grounded" to you, Dr. Hurt, but I don't think your opinion/interpretataion is the only way to look at it.

And why must they remain stagant, Rob? At the very least, If they are going out three times a century, why aren't they picking up the technology they encounter?

Taking it a step further, does "grounded" and "realistic" Amazons really fit with stories of candle-head gods and love guns?

[Rob_Olivera]

That's a lot of "IFs" to be "realistic," no? I don't see this as "realistic," I see it as an exaggeration in a negative direction. History is not full of real groups of female warriors running about killing men. This may feel "grounded" to you, Dr. Hurt, but I don't think your opinion/interpretataion is the only way to look at it.

And why must they remain stagant, Rob? At the very least, If they are going out three times a century, why aren't they picking up the technology they encounter?

Taking it a step further, does "grounded" and "realistic" Amazons really fit with stories of candle-head gods and love guns?

Well.. with all due respect... I don't think there's any technology being exchanged when they have a D____ up their P_____. LOL. They are collecting specimens and doing a direct deposit in the bank through the drive-thru. They probably hate men so much that the less time around them, the better. No time to dilly dally while on board.

They would remain "stagnant" because they're not benefitting from outside cultures, no new ideas to build on. Maybe if they'd kept Steve Trevor's plane (and maybe they did, we don't know yet) they'll start tinkling around with it and see what makes it tick. All the technology we have today is built on previous versions (any iGuy can confirm that).

I don't think those were alot of IF's. I think that based on what we've been given in the nu52 ("so far") they are all FACTS. Yes? No?