Cap's Ethics: Was Cap's stance too harsh in AvX?

**Starfish** · 04-21-2012, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by mikekerrIII

where does it say that that is Scotts plan? it is not mentioned in any book or preview

That's true; he doesn't seem to have a plan aside from beating the crap out of Hope and hoping she'll thank him for it by doing his bidding once she's nearly all-powerful.

Originally Posted by Daithi

Read DPS again. The Phoenix was manipulated by Mastermind, then went nuts and ate a sun. It wasn't ever aware of the planet. It also saved the universe with Jean before it.

Also Rachel had no problem bossing the Phoenix around

Hm, from what we've seen so far, Marvel might be aiming for a DPS II with this event. What used to be Mastermind then, is Unit now. Which wouldn't exactly be that creative, mind you, so I'm hoping for a few more surprises.

**RDMacQ** · 04-21-2012, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Daithi

Read DPS again. The Phoenix was manipulated by Mastermind, then went nuts and ate a sun. It wasn't ever aware of the planet. It also saved the universe with Jean before it.

Yeah, and in the lead up to that story, Cyclops expressed concern that Jean was getting WAY too powerful all of a sudden. Like when she REARRANGED THE MOLECULES IN HER COSTUME just so that she'd have something comfortable to wear at a picnic.

Also Rachel had no problem bossing the Phoenix around

Yeah, and in that scene it also that the Phoenix Force IS incredibly destructive and was all that she could do to keep it quiet.

Also, Rachel has YEARS of training with her psychic powers. Hope has next to none, and isn't even a psychic.

**Lascoden** · 04-21-2012, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by RDMacQ

Yeah, and in the lead up to that story, Cyclops expressed concern that Jean was getting WAY too powerful all of a sudden. Like when she REARRANGED THE MOLECULES IN HER COSTUME just so that she'd have something comfortable to wear at a picnic.

Yeah, and in that scene it also that the Phoenix Force IS incredibly destructive and was all that she could do to keep it quiet.

Also, Rachel has YEARS of training with her psychic powers. Hope has next to none, and isn't even a psychic.

Well, one facet of her power is that whenever she gains a power, she has an immediate and complete understanding of it. If she gains super strength, she has perfect fine control. Telekinesis, she can pluck a fly's wings off. So, I think that she could handle the full PF, though I don't doubt that she would struggle with it. Plus, the Phoenix is a lot more manageable with a willing host, which Hope definitely is.

**infernohara** · 04-21-2012, 07:49 PM

I'm not so sure that Hope wants to be some willing Host to the phoenix. Hope likes to be in control and she struggles with the fraction of power from it she already has.....why would she want to be taken over by the actual force?

Hope will most likely be running from this thing and want to repower mutants in her own way when she finds out that Bishop was right about her when she actually has the phoenix.

**Lascoden** · 04-21-2012, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by infernohara

I'm not so sure that Hope wants to be some willing Host to the phoenix. Hope likes to be in control and she struggles with the fraction of power from it she already has.....why would she want to be taken over by the actual force?

Hope will most likely be running from this thing and want to repower mutants in her own way when she finds out that Bishop was right about her when she actually has the phoenix.

She's said repeatedly that she is ready to embrace her destiny as the mutant messiah, and that she is willing to bond with the Phoenix. She last stated it in AvX 0#.

**LeonardEugenius** · 04-22-2012, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by RDMacQ

Yeah, and in that scene it also that the Phoenix Force IS incredibly destructive and was all that she could do to keep it quiet.

Also, Rachel has YEARS of training with her psychic powers. Hope has next to none, and isn't even a psychic.

I think you're missing the point of that scan. Anyone with super powers has the potential to be incredibly destructive. The important part is control, which Rachel obviously has. It doesn't say that she strained or that it "was all that she could to to keep it quiet." It's implying that she isn't used to being in a situation where she needs to reign in her power, and then shows you that she can.

**deathcry** · 04-22-2012, 09:38 AM

what i find amusing is that the last two times the phoenix appeared, Cyclops was ready to kill the hosts (jean and the cuckoos) to stop it. (sarcasm) So maybe that is his plan...to kill hope. (/sarcasm)

and what everyone appears to be missing... Hope already has the phoenix power....AND the bird is still coming, destroying worlds as it goes.... they might want to try a different strategy

**infernohara** · 04-22-2012, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Lascoden

She's said repeatedly that she is ready to embrace her destiny as the mutant messiah, and that she is willing to bond with the Phoenix. She last stated it in AvX 0#.

I don't remember her repeatedly saying that shes ready to take the force as its usually forced for her to use the current power she has. She still knows very little about the phoenix and since Scott hasn't hosted it AT ALL, he really isn't that qualified to tell her anything about it. He should be letting a person like Rachel guide her, but thats just a missed opportunity....at least Emma tried to host it before.

Also for all this faith in monsters, when did the Phoenix force repower mutants? I missed the appearnces of it doing that without a price.

**infernohara** · 04-22-2012, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by infernohara

I don't remember her repeatedly saying that shes ready to take the force as its usually forced for her to use the current power she has. She still knows very little about the phoenix and since Scott hasn't hosted it AT ALL, he really isn't that qualified to tell her anything about it. He should be letting a person like Rachel guide her, but thats just a missed opportunity....at least Emma tried to host it before. She may have said it as some front, but I'm not convinced shes ready. Unless, Unit has seriously gave her some false information as Scott has YET to even talk to her about the phoenix.

Also for all this faith in monsters, when did the Phoenix force repower mutants? I missed the appearnces of it doing that without a price.

She may have said it as some front, but I'm not convinced shes ready. Unless, Unit has seriously gave her some false information as Scott has YET to even talk to her about the phoenix.

**fedup23** · 04-22-2012, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by x-men_always_win

Cyclops would been a fool to put his people in that dangerous situation.

hahaha .. Yeah.. instead he is basically doing nothing to save his people in AvX.

"Hope could be the savior of the mutant race.. or she could kill us all"

Yep.. he would be a fool to put his people in a dangerous situation.

**Iron Maiden** · 04-22-2012, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by x-men_always_win

For all we know, Rictor is gonna explode. I wouldn't take medicine from the person who made me sick. Cyclops would been a fool to put his people in that dangerous situation. Cap should have understood Scott's dilema and allowed him to punish her on mutantkind's behalf.

So know you're OK with Cap having the power to decide Wanda's fate by "allowing" (your words) Cyclops to punish Wanda. And who gave Scott the power to act on behalf of all mutant's? Was he elected by someone? At least Cap has been chosen by the President (Siege) and his appointment was passed by Congress, you know a government that is actually recognized. It's Scott that has gone power mad here, not Cap. He will still answer have someone to answer to (POTUS) for his actions.

**fedup23** · 04-22-2012, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by deathcry

what i find amusing is that the last two times the phoenix appeared, Cyclops was ready to kill the hosts (jean and the cuckoos) to stop it. (sarcasm) So maybe that is his plan...to kill hope. (/sarcasm)

and what everyone appears to be missing... Hope already has the phoenix power....AND the bird is still coming, destroying worlds as it goes.... they might want to try a different strategy

I dont think she has all of the power it brings yet.. I think she is getting flashes of it. Like the closer you get to a fire .. the hotter it gets.

**deathcry** · 04-22-2012, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by fedup23

I dont think she has all of the power it brings yet.. I think she is getting flashes of it. Like the closer you get to a fire .. the hotter it gets.

Possibly. My main point is that this seems to be a different manifestation of the phoenix. Whether she has a fragment like the cuckoos, and others did and the PF is coming. Or if she only has some of it, and the rest is coming. We don't know. Because this is different. Or hope is manifesting a fragment and Jean/Phoenix is coming to collect.
Either way, we should be enjoying it. Some seem like they aren't enjoying it.