Chris Roberson Ends Work with DC Comics

[Awesome!]

If you're pro-DC then you damn well wish Alan Moore was still writing for them.

And the ONLY reason he isn't is because DC screwed him.

When they did that, they screwed us even worse.

I'm sure he would have found something else to be bitter over.

Also I don't like Roberson's writing a whole lot so this is good for me.

[Jake V]

I'm glad that he's sticking to his principles, but bummed that I won't be seeing a Superman run from him without JMS weighing him down.

[Johnny P. Sartre]

The difference between the Big Two and the European and Japanese comics industry is that neither of the latter two have companies that own a massive amount of copyrighted characters as intellectual property. The Big Two are much more similar to Hasbro-Takara Tomy and the Transformers property, where there is plenty of creative works involving the Transformers character but at the end the main objective is to sell toys; likewise with Marvel/DC the objective is to sell their characters, not individual author's stories. Not to say that Europe and Japan don't have popular characters to sell, but the difference is that most of the characters are owned by their individual creators and do not exist in a shared universe.

As for Chris Roberson, shame he is leaving, but I respect he standing by his principles (but I not sure how the Siegal and Before Watchman issues affect his work personally, since both are very old controversies that happened when hiring and contract policies were very different compared to today).

You are right but I took what turtlefood as the entire industry and not just the big two and that's my response was tailored to a more expansive take than just the big two. Looking back at the comment, turtlefood just meant the big two.

Also, Chris is a grown man and I have trust that he knew what he was doing, knew what would occur when he said these statements and knew that he would have a backup plan.

David Hine also criticized the big two too and is writing a comic which shows how crappy the industry can get (Bullet Proof Coffins, one of the best comics getting released)

http://www.brokenfrontier.com/lowdow...-owned-sandbox
"Working for the Big Two publishing companies puts you in front of a very big audience that you would have to bust a gut to reach any other way. But there are enormous drawbacks to working with characters that were created by other people, people incidentally, whose contributions have, for the most part, never been adequately recompensed because they were work for hire.

I’m not going to get into the legal issues here. Frankly I don’t give a shit that creators pissed away their rights on lousy contracts or when they signed the backs of their pay cheques. No amount of courtroom verdicts can alter the fact that the creators were treated badly from an ethical perspective and that taints everything that is produced by Marvel and DC until the day they make reparation, not because a court rules that they have to, but because it’s the right thing to do."



PS: Again, I agree with these gentlemen but won't jock, look differently or care if one still wants to get DC and Marvel comics. Issues and statements like these can be misread and Desaad, I feel you but I feel that indie are bring more to the table then DC and Marvel are right now.

[Johnny P. Sartre]

There is one thing that does bug me and that is when people think a creator won't last, get a job or do well without working with DC or Marvel which is bullshit. There has been and are numerous amount indie comic creator who have done well and are well off without having to work with DC or Marvel (pariah or both or not). So I'm not worrying bout Mr. Roberson being well off or living happily, I'm more worried about people thinking you NEED to work at DC or Marvel to be well off or famous. It does help but you CAN do without them.

[Desaad]

You are right but I took what turtlefood as the entire industry and not just the big two and that's my response was tailored to a more expansive take than just the big two. Looking back at the comment, turtlefood just meant the big two.

Also, Chris is a grown man and I have trust that he knew what he was doing, knew what would occur when he said these statements and knew that he would have a backup plan.

David Hine also criticized the big two too and is writing a comic which shows how crappy the industry can get (Bullet Proof Coffins, one of the best comics getting released)

http://www.brokenfrontier.com/lowdow...-owned-sandbox
"Working for the Big Two publishing companies puts you in front of a very big audience that you would have to bust a gut to reach any other way. But there are enormous drawbacks to working with characters that were created by other people, people incidentally, whose contributions have, for the most part, never been adequately recompensed because they were work for hire.

I’m not going to get into the legal issues here. Frankly I don’t give a shit that creators pissed away their rights on lousy contracts or when they signed the backs of their pay cheques. No amount of courtroom verdicts can alter the fact that the creators were treated badly from an ethical perspective and that taints everything that is produced by Marvel and DC until the day they make reparation, not because a court rules that they have to, but because it’s the right thing to do."



PS: Again, I agree with these gentlemen but won't jock, look differently or care if one still wants to get DC and Marvel comics. Issues and statements like these can be misread and Desaad, I feel you but I feel that indie are bring more to the table then DC and Marvel are right now.

Totally cool with you feeling differently as well.

For me, the indies are bringing it like they rarely have. Image in particularly is putting out some incredible material, or will be putting out some incredible material. If we are talking about percentages, then yes I think they are probably putting out a large percentage of stuff I am excited about - Hickman's Manhattan Projects and (to a lesser extent, Secret), BKV's Saga, Brubaker's Fatale, Morrison's Be Happy (anticipated), Kirkman's Invincible, Prophet, Wiebe's Peter Panzerfaust, Gillen's Phonogram.

That said, it isn't all greatness; I think Glory is mediocre, I think Bloodstrike is quite terrible, I think Morning Glories is littered with cliche and the worst kind of mystery, Skullkickers is not for me, Danger Club has been done in the most important ways, and books like Walking Dead, Youngblood, Thief of Thiefs, Savage Dragon, America's got Powers, etc are at best fine, many of them ephemerally mediocre.

Meanwhile, I'd put the best of image up against the best of Marvel and DC; Lemire's Animal Man, Sweet Tooth and Frankenstein; Cornell's Demon Knights; Morrison's Action and Batman Inc; Snyder's Batman, American Vampire, and Swamp Thing; Fialkov's I, Vampire; Azzarello's Wonder Woman and Spaceman; Robinson's Shade; Aaron's Scalped and Wolverine and the X Men; Hickman's FF and Fantastic Four (which are better than anything he's released out of Image, in my opinion); and on and on and on again.

I'm happy to support the work of creators I love. I'll do so in whatever way they choose to produce that work.

[Desaad]

There is one thing that does bug me and that is when people think a creator won't last, get a job or do well without working with DC or Marvel which is bullshit. There has been and are numerous amount indie comic creator who have done well and are well off without having to work with DC or Marvel (pariah or both or not). So I'm not worrying bout Mr. Roberson being well off or living happily, I'm more worried about people thinking you NEED to work at DC or Marvel to be well off or famous. It does help but you CAN do without them.

I think people like Kirkman are a little disingenuous when they say so, though. There have really only been a few creators who have managed it, Kirkman is one of them, Vaughn is another (I think the most financially successful run he had was...what, Runaways? Maybe that GL Circle of Fire or Ultimate X Men run he did?).

I think it's okay to sort of have a life cycle, and I think the issues of the past are really no longer the issues of the present; creators are more canny than they were back then.

Now, it generally goes; start at an independent, produce some work with critical acclaim and buzz within the hardcore comic circle; start on small projects at Marvel and DC and really make a name on some low selling but cult hits like Ghost Rider, Punisher, Daredevil, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, etc; go on to do some well looked upon work with big draw characters like Batman, Superman, SpiderMan, X Men; go back to creator owned work and bring some portion of the people who liked your "X Men" or "Batman" stuff with you, make enough money to live off of your creator owned material, predominantly.

[Johnny P. Sartre]

Image does have some comics, personally don't like but they are starting to pick up even more momentum and we still haven't the releases or Morrison's book, Wood's book, Chakryin (sp?) book, and newer books they're about to release. Heck, Dark Horse is starting to pic up their game too.

Now if I can speak about graphic novels, graphic novels is where it's at. I've been spending my money more on those than DC, Marvel, Dark Horse and Image because there a great resurgence of original graphic novels as of lately. I just got done reading a book Celestial Bibidenum and man, one the most original books I've read this year! The you have Lemire's new book coming this month and great releases from Archania (sp?).

All and all it's good to be a comic fan right now.

[Desaad]

I'm very, very wary of translated books. Too much of the authors voice is lost in them. Celestial Bibidenum is translated from french, no?

[Johnny P. Sartre]

Yes but I wouldn't worry to much, Humanoids have great translators.

[Jody Garland]

I'm very, very wary of translated books. Too much of the authors voice is lost in them. Celestial Bibidenum is translated from french, no?

I'm going to assume this has something to do with Bibendum, the Michellin Man. Nothing can sway me from this because "Celestial Bibendum" is the greatest image I've ever thought of.

Sort of on topic, given that opinion, what do you think of translated manga? Put the mass market stuff to the side for a sec and think of thinks like Pluto and Uzumaki.

[Johnny P. Sartre]

I'm going to assume this has something to do with Bibendum, the Michellin Man. Nothing can sway me from this because "Celestial Bibendum" is the greatest image I've ever thought of.

Sort of on topic, given that opinion, what do you think of translated manga? Put the mass market stuff to the side for a sec and think of thinks like Pluto and Uzumaki.

It's Celestial Bibendum (my spellin is atrious tonight)and it's bout a loniely seal pup becoming the messiah of love for new york and yes Michellin man plays a part. Now take what I said bout the book and add the level of absurd and surrealness of William Burroughs, the body horror of David Cronenberg matched with High brow/low brow black humor with a touch of sharp satire, you have Celestial Bibendum.

Mangas, you can mostly trust especially if it's a big project or big cartoonist but most companies do a good job translating

[Desaad]

So I've read Pluto, and undoubtedly the core of the story is an interesting one.

But the actual dialog, the prose...I find it hard to believe that the original reads so simple. I think meaning is constructed very carefully by the best writers, and I think the nuances of it can be missed or or misunderstood.

To give an example in prose, I was recently reading through a copy of some collected works of Jorge Luis Borges. I had a couple of different editions of collected works, some with overlapping stories, some in English and some in Spanish. While some translations are 'better' than others, there is a lyricism and a wit that is lost, a facility with wordplay, as well as an ability to get large amounts of information across with few words. This is almost universal, and unavoidable.

Ditto for the works of someone like Eduardo Gaelano. There are some bits that really only work, only make sense, in spanish.

In comics, I can't imagine any translation effectively capturing the wit and intelligence of Azzarello's manipulation of the english language. That's part of what makes his run so special, and I'd hate to see it lost.

[Johnny P. Sartre]

Dialog and prose aside, even past the core of the story, Pluto is a beautifully, complex and very tightly written and drawn book. Urasawa does a beautiful job perspective flipping a small arc (shown in one book and it's not that long) in the Astro Boy canon and expanding it to eight volumes. Not only does he give an amazing backstory to all the robot masters, he gives them the robots humanity. Prose/dialog aside, he does a great job with his art and he also give nods, homages and tributes to the entire Astro Boy universe. An example of is when Astro Boy death and returnis takin from another arc and perfectly added to this arc, fucking brilliant. This book is a love letter to Astro Boy and Tezuka and he practically deconstructs and reconstructs the Astro Boy canon!

Overall, there is a lot that meets the eye but sadly if you're not a big Astro Boy fans, you'll miss quite a lot.

[Froggy]

I'm going to assume this has something to do with Bibendum, the Michellin Man. Nothing can sway me from this because "Celestial Bibendum" is the greatest image I've ever thought of.

Sort of on topic, given that opinion, what do you think of translated manga? Put the mass market stuff to the side for a sec and think of thinks like Pluto and Uzumaki.

uzumaki and pluto are amazing

so is Monster

[Johnny P. Sartre]

Junji ito is an amazing horror manga artist but his stories have great beginnings and middles his endings sometimes lack.

Now Urasawa is a whole another beast, he's one of the best modern ocartoonists, hands down, top 10 or 5 best. Monster, Billy Bat, Pluto, and 20th century boys, all bloody brilliant.