'Rama Interview: Brian Azzarello on WW

[Dr. Hurt]

Hi AW..

I don't think it's a fair comparison.

The Manazons have no pretensions, such as the Amazons (at least prior to the relaunch) who sent an emissary to the outside world to teach about Love and Peace hypocritically from a race of people who feared and were offput by the opposite sex to the point where they hid on an island for centuries.

The Manazons are victims and would love to be left alone, unnoticed. They are happy where they are and care nothing about the outside world.

No, poor Amazons were forced by the gods to be isolated on an island. Its not like the wanted to. Poor poor amazons. And then they conveniently forgot about that and sent their champion to man's world.

The champion btw was just made from a woman. No men involved, no sir! Dirty evil men, keep your phalluses away!

[Dr. Hurt]

Here is the thing. Characters either "speak" to you or they don't. And depending on your background, culture, gender, age, etc, different types of characters speak to different people.

For the life of me, I don't find Batman interesting. I don't find the Guardians of Oa interesting. I don't find any of the newer X-men interesting. But I know some people love these characters. And I know that some people love the types of stories that are told with these characters. And that is great. But I am sure that anything that Bat-fans find interesting about the character, is exactly what I find to be boring about him. Variety is the spice of life.

I have issues when the idea is put forward that one type of character or storytelling is "better" or more "interesting" than another. And I find it especially irritating when creators and fans feel as if they need to malign what has come before them in order to build the "new thing" up. And to be clear, I don't really count Azzarello in that group, as much, as writers like JMS and Rucka.

But to answer your question-
Immortal
Beautiful
mythologically based
Utopian Society
Advanced technology (yes, I liked Golden and Silver age)
and I like that because it is supposed to inform Diana.

And I don't want to see them very often, just as I hated the whole Kryptonian event we saw a while back in the Superman stories and I dislike Aquaman stories that stay in Atlantis.

The thing is that that old version wasnt liked and didnt interest a lot of people. Nobody really cared about WW. It had become an old book next to Harry Potter and Hunger Games, and everyone preferred those instead. They've been trying to figure out a way to make her relevant again, first with JMS, then with their TV series ideas, now this. This seems to be doing well and bringing new people to the book.

So why should the core fans have a say about this when they werent even enough to support the book? I'm sorry, but comics are a living, moving thing, and if WW wants to stay relevant, she needs to speak to modern generations and for that she needs to keep up like SM and BM have.

Go outside, take a look at kids of today. With their internet, their action movies, and their Call of Duty videogames. Do you really think old WW would speak to them? This is why Superman is less mopey and whiney now, this is why his eyes flare up red a lot more now, this is why he's more of a badass. And the same goes for WW, who took the stick out of her ass, she cut the gender crap, and she's isnt fighting pathetic dwarfs that are in love with her, but greek gods, DEM CHIANG GODS. And you know that people love greek mythology.

Which was more successful? Is murdering Amazons really necessary? Batman sells even more (LOTS more), and his folks, and Alfred, haven't murdered anyone, have they? There are more ways to make supporting characters interesting that 'murderous society', no? Should Lennoz and Zola toss a baby off a cliff for more interesting realism?

You're acting as if we're saying that it's the murdering that we like, the murdering that makes this book successful. It's not. Let me explain why we like it:

- Diana speaks more casually, is less formal, and less ideal. It even makes me interested about her origin because i know they wont have her win a contest and go to man's world to preach, being perfect and ready from the start.
- New supporting cast
- Amazing redesign of her entire world, cast, and costume which now doesnt look like a rainbow threw up on her
- A grittier and more bloody world, a vertigo world, a greek drama kind of world, with Diana keeping gods in check.
- No gender politics, no lectures about someone's superiority, no romance stories that boil down to who is submissive, who gets tied up, and who becomes someone else's b***. God i hated that Marston crap.
- Amazons are more like Vikings, or ancient Greeks, than perfect supermodels who speak like the queen of England. People like Vikings and Greeks. They slaughtered people too you know.
- Traveling around the world, beating monsters to protect Zola, rather than being an ambassador (politics = most boring thing in the world) and an autograph signing icon.

[Rob_Olivera]

No, poor Amazons were forced by the gods to be isolated on an island. Its not like the wanted to. Poor poor amazons. And then they conveniently forgot about that and sent their champion to man's world.

The champion btw was just made from a woman. No men involved, no sir! Dirty evil men, keep your phalluses away!

Although not ALL the Amazons chose to go to the island. It was created as a safe Haven by the Goddesses. Although as a man, I will tell you that I'd be weary of stepping on that Island (and now, thanks to Azzarello.. sail by it).. and guess what, I live in Florida.. I just might! LOL.

[SteveGus]

It's levelled off considerably, which is more than what I could say for the 2007 relaunch. Alan Heinberg was a hot writer at the time, and the relaunch tumbled quickly.

There was also a major issue with getting Heinberg to actually write the book. The chronic lateness can't have helped.

[Seresecros]

It should be pointed out that 53% is more than 50%. But all print comics are dying at the moment anyway, because of costs/piracy/whatever. Uncanny X-Men will never sell what it once did, and neither will Batman or Wonder Woman or any other mainstream comic. And the sales argument can't ever relate to the quality of a series. There's so many different factors responsible for sales, and actual quality is only one of them. It all falls back into subjectivity

[slvn]

Question: If the pre-DCnU Amazons are bad for being "perfect," then aren't Azzarello's Manazons also bad?

I see no warfare from them. No faults or dirt. They all just want to work for Hephy? No one wants to leave the nest? Be a chef? Meet a woman? How are they really all that different from the Amazons he claims are too "perfect"?

We haven't really known them long enough to get bored of them, have we? In a few years, if we see more of them and none of them is ever discontent about anything, I'm pretty sure I'll agree that they're boring. I'm hoping that some of them will relocate to Paradise Island and join their sisters in trying to build a society in which the genders are equal That's a scenario that would lead to plenty of conflict within a generally idealistic direction.

Similarly, in the long-run, I think the women of Paradise Island will be boring if we don't see some other sides (for example, non-savage, perhaps altruistic and cultured) sides to them. FOR THE MOMENT, they're interesting---or maybe a better word is intriguing--because there are so many unanswered questions about them.

[yanapryde]

Would anyone be so kind as to provide a list of the GODS that have appeared in Wonder Woman thus far??
The Nu-Wonder Woman that is.

Thanks so much!

[brettc1]

It's levelled off considerably, which is more than what I could say for the 2007 relaunch. Alan Heinberg was a hot writer at the time, and the relaunch tumbled quickly.

Didn't he hand in five issue in 7 months, and ended up not finishing his first arc until the annual came out - four months after he left?

And yet the book still sold very well because folks were wanting to see how Sacrfice would finally pan out, the Dodson's amazing artwork...

...and of course they put Nemesis in the book. Wonde Woman and Tom Tresser, the two hottest characters in comics, in the same book - its a no-brainer

[WhitOro]

Even I like Strife. Wonder Woman needs a Joker of her own.

Oh God, we agree on something. How is that even possible?

It's not about being an objective fact; it's about why that change was done in the first place. So yes, to me and to Azzarello too and other people enjoying this book.

Thanks Holmes.
I've read throught Simone's run, plus I've read stories of Jimenez, of Rucka. While the character of Diana was something that I aprpeciated, I've found each story boring to the point of tears.

I'm not saying that making the Amazons rape-pirates made me more interesting (I've enjoyed them before issue 7) but the overall world he built around her while still maitining intact the character is much more compelling IMO.

[Seresecros]

Would anyone be so kind as to provide a list of the GODS that have appeared in Wonder Woman thus far??
The Nu-Wonder Woman that is.

Thanks so much!

Hermes, Hera, Zeus, Eros, Poseidon, Hades, Hephaestus.

Aphrodite is around, but hasn't appeared yet.

[yanapryde]

Hermes, Hera, Zeus, Eros, Poseidon, Hades, Hephaestus.

Aphrodite is around, but hasn't appeared yet.

Thank you, Seresecros.
And...Eros is Aphrodite's kid, yes?

[jelebino]

Would anyone be so kind as to provide a list of the GODS that have appeared in Wonder Woman thus far??
The Nu-Wonder Woman that is.

Thanks so much!

We have Apollo, posing as an incredibly rich playboy, the "sun of a king".

Hera prowls her palace on Olympus. She wears a robe of peacock feathers over her birthday suit when she goes into action.

Eris, here called Strife, drinks a lot and hangs out wherever she can be most irritating.

Hermes watches out for the girl plot-device at the centre of the series. He wears shabby Greek rags and a WWI helmet and has winged birdlike feet.

Zeus is nowhere to be found just now, but he has appeared to Hippolyta as a man of stunning hunkiness, in his prime.

Poseidon has appeared in the form of a gigantic sea-monster.

Hades is a pale blue youth, his eyes covered over with the wax of several thick candles which flame upon his head.

Ares is an old, bearded, bald fellow who relaxes in back-country bars in war-ravaged Africa.

Hephaestus is a fanged ogre who runs a tribe of Lost (Amazon) boys, and is actually a perceptive guy.

Ah, and how could I have forgotten Eros, the golden gangster-boy of Florence?

[yanapryde]

We have Apollo, posing as an incredibly rich playboy, the "sun of a king".

Hera prowls her palace on Olympus. She wears a robe of peacock feathers over her birthday suit when she goes into action.

Eris, here called Strife, drinks a lot and hangs out wherever she can be most irritating.

Hermes watches out for the girl plot-device at the centre of the series. He wears shabby Greek rags and a WWI helmet and has winged birdlike feet.

Zeus is nowhere to be found just now, but he has appeared to Hippolyta as a man of stunning hunkiness, in his prime.

Poseidon has appeared in the form of a gigantic sea-monster.

Hades is a pale blue youth, his eyes covered over with the wax of several thick candles which flame upon his head.

Ares is an old, bearded, bald fellow who relaxes in back-country bars in war-ravaged Africa.

Hephaestus is a fanged ogre who runs a tribe of Lost (Amazon) boys, and is actually a perceptive guy.

Ah, and how could I have forgotten Eros, the golden gangster-boy of Florence?

Oooooh even BETTER. Thank you so much. Helpful and wonderful descriptions.

[slvn]

Didn't he hand in five issue in 7 months, and ended up not finishing his first arc until the annual came out - four months after he left?

I think you have to count Heinberg's reputation as a hot writer as a big reason why his #1 sold so very well. Once it was clear that he was not delivering, neither the Dodson's art nor anything else was able to keep the sales from plummeting at a faster rate than they are now--though they were falling form a higher peak so they were still higher.

[americanwonder]

Hey, Americanwonder! Long time to speak! I think this is an interesting point you've made, and I wonder if Azzarello did it on purpose. Are we more willing to see the Manazons as Hephaestus's slaves because they're men working under a god? The Amazons could be seen as doing the same thing, just for a different god (or goddess) pre-Flashpoint. Could Azz be trying to make us see a gender double standard?

Hi Greatmetropolitan, good to see you! I do wonder just what Azzarello is up to - like you, I'd wager he's got more to this story. Aside from the Amazons' portrayal, I'm enjoying the story, too.

I don't think it's a fair comparison.

The Manazons have no pretensions, such as the Amazons (at least prior to the relaunch) who sent an emissary to the outside world to teach about Love and Peace hypocritically from a race of people who feared and were offput by the opposite sex to the point where they hid on an island for centuries.

The Manazons are victims and would love to be left alone, unnoticed. They are happy where they are and care nothing about the outside world.

So, it's ok to be "perfect" characters as long as you don't send out an emissary? ;) Azzarello's statement in the interview is not about the Amazons' pretensions, but that they were too "perfect." Perez Amazons were victims wanting to be left alone, and people still complain, no?

We haven't really known them long enough to get bored of them, have we? ...

I'm bored of them - they're all 1 note wonders. It's a very shallow portrayal of both the men and the women. But, I don't see anyone complaining about the men being too "perfect," even though they mimick many of the complaints about the previous Amazons. I like your idea about integrating the two groups; that's got some good potential, imo.

Like you, and like Greatmetropolitan above, I suspect/expect there's more to this, I'm just commenting on what we have been given thus far (my opinions are open and subject to change as new info becomes available). I'll be really disappointed if this is the best Azzarello can do.