'Rama Interview: Brian Azzarello on WW

[Dr. Hurt]

>So?
>How is talking to your own gender about how to be better chauvinism? Are you one of those people that thinks Ebony Magazine needs a white edition?
>The Amazons are secluded...but has WW ever preached for that in the outside....no. So obviously that isn't the Amazons belief about how the world should work.
>What does it matter if she wasn't conceived by a man? If she were artificially grown in a tube no one would be doubting her birth "Obama" style like this.

You're still havent answered for their theocracy and monarchy. Face it, their society is pretty backwards, despite their tech and sophistication.

Also, the fact that she has no father sends a pretty good message. Didnt you see all the feminist messages on the internet (other sites mostly) where feminists raged about Azz daring to give their pure woman figure a father? How dare he taint her like that?

[West Mantooth]

You're still havent answered for their theocracy and monarchy. Face it, their society is pretty backwards, despite their tech and sophistication.

I didn't reply cause I don't understand your point. Wonder Woman and the Amazons aren't trying to change the American govt. Marston has someone from a theocracy, monarchy come to save a Democracy cause it was important.

So what's you point against them?.....

Also, the fact that she has no father sends a pretty good message. Didnt you see all the feminist messages on the internet (other sites mostly) where feminists raged about Azz daring to give their pure woman figure a father? How dare he taint her like that?

I read it. You must have skimmed the part about the fact the point had nothing to do with her father(shocking). It's the fact that most stories told for girls don't feature mother's as important. Name how many fairy tales have a girl and her mother as central characters? It's always the father.

Again, the point isn't the exclusion of males, it's a focus on women and daughters.

Get this point clear, the exclusion of males isn't the same idea of males not being important. Just because you aren't the star or supporting character doesn't mean you have no role.

[Auguste Dupin]

Is your Truth, Justice, and American Way the same as mine? Doubt it.

Is the American Way better than everyone elses and should be seen as such? Is that what Superman is supposed to be the inspirational figure of?

It's all quasi-power fantasy and idealism. I don't understand why we need to celebrate the idea of showing how unreal it is in WW and then act like the Kent's fake Americana attitudes on a freakin farm in Kansas is protected like the Constitution.



My point is that Ma Kent should have a past as a prostitute and hooker. That's more real and characterizes someone overcoming their past.

Difference is....Truth Justice and the American Way is not much more than a slogan (besides, Truth and Justice are pretty easy to grasp. Not American Way I give you that). It's not Superman's actual motivation (it's more like helping people). I have yet to see Superman trying to preach Truth and Justice to the unknowing masses. He doesn't have any agenda. He helps people while he can, he doesn't have some secret way of making the world a paradise he would be having from his Homeworld. Diana is on Man's World specifically to teach it the Amazonian Ways. If you don't see where's the problem that we have no idea what "Amazonian Ways" actually mean, well... i don't know what to tell you.

As for you example, I say that or making Krypton a cold, heartless planet of arrogant bastards that brought their own destruction by creating a society devoid of feeling and with no concept of love.... Ho wait, they already DID that.

[West Mantooth]

Difference is....Truth Justice and the American Way is not much more than a slogan (besides, Truth and Justice are pretty easy to grasp. Not American Way I give you that). It's not Superman's actual motivation (it's more like helping people). I have yet to see Superman trying to preach Truth and Justice to the unknowing masses. He doesn't have any agenda. He helps people while he can, he doesn't have some secret way of making the world a paradise he would be having from his Homeworld. Diana is on Man's World specifically to teach it the Amazonian Ways. If you don't see where's the problem that we have no idea what "Amazonian Ways" actually mean, well... i don't know what to tell you.

Superman is supposed to be an inspiration to our behavior, right? Lex Luthor isn't against him cause he doesn't like him helping people. He's a false prophet.

The last time Superman had a definitive way to address "Truth and Justice" was when he used to beat up landlords in the 30s. Now he can't decide if he's supposed to intervene in domestic violence cases. So what's his "help" exactly?

"Amazonian Ways" is just a shorthand for equality?

We don't need a definite roadmap to equality any more than we need to know if Superman's "Truth and Justice" is pro-choice, pro-gun, or pro death penalty.

As for you example, I say that or making Krypton a cold, heartless planet of arrogant bastards that brought their own destruction by creating a society devoid of feeling and with no concept of love.... Ho wait, they already DID that.

Except Superman's values don't come from Krypton. It's the Kent's that are the foundation of his moral code.

[Dr. Hurt]

Dr. Hurt,
You are replying to my thread as if I was making my points as to why Azzarello is wrong in doing what he is doing. I did not not make that claim. The previous poster asked for fans of the previous WW to explain what they found interesting about the Amazons.

I did so.

I also did so acknowledging that the very things that I found interesting about them are probably the very things that many readers would not. But I also said that the the things that make other characters interesting to some are a turn off to me. I think a grittier, more bloody world is a snooze.
I think that Vikings are boring. I have no use for a new supporting cast. Etc. Etc.

I am not trying to justify that my likes are more valid than anyone else's. Likewise, no amount of argument in the world will make me believe that my taste and opinions are less valid than others. :)

If the book is making money for DC, great. Will I buy it? No.

When Azzarello leaves will I still be a WW fan? Yes. Will a lot of the current readers? That remains to be seen.


Should DC stop the presses and hire the artist and writer of my choice to write the book? No. But should I be able to come onto a message board devoted to ALL things WW and give my heartfelt opinion. I would hope so.

Perhaps i came off too strong. I didnt mean that you shouldnt have an opinion, i meant that DC will obviously want to increase WW's sales even if it outrages her core fanbase which is pretty small and not enough to sustain it. And we must face the fact that comics fans hate change, and WW fans are probably some of the most fanatic. Also, there's the fact that WW is tied to feminism so that ties her hands even more.

If i was a Batman fan and the franchise was dying, i'd prefer he be changed so that he may appeal to more people. People who perhaps dont have the same attachment as me, so they're more open to new concepts and interpretations. That's what's happening now with WW. They're giving her world it's own distinct feel, it's own power, along with making it a mix of Hellboy and 300 and Clash of the Titans.

For me the only bad point has been the Amazon thing, i'm sure there must have been a better way to go about this. But i wasnt attached to them before, in fact they bored me to tears, so i'm willing to let Azz finish his story and explain everything before i pass judgement. But all in all, i'm more interested in a Greek drama type of WW book (even if it is more bloody and gritty), than a comic book whose modern inc techniques are the only thing that set it apart from Golden Age. Ok, i'm exaggerating a bit, i know.

And like i've said before, if WW sticks, if she becomes successful, then you'll have more comics about her, more writers busting their heads to come up with cool pitches for DC. Right now its "Oh, i'm on WW duty? Oh no.... What do i write?" When that happens, when WW will be able to do whatever she wants and her fanbase will follow, we'll be able to have silver age whackiness (Morrison just pulled off zanny silver age Batman. Who saw that coming?) or simply bad plots (Blackest Night was pretty crap, but GL survived because he was already popular and it was a mindless blockbuster).

But if you have Golden Age Batman who doesnt sell so well, and you keep trying to make him sell, or you try Morrison's Silver Age thing, of course you're gonna fail. At the end of the day, Morrison embraced 100 different versions of Batman, because Batman can be anything. Naysayers (and i dont mean you, i'm talking in general):

Why cant WW?

I do disagree that the old version was not liked. The old version had a resonance with many people. I will however agree that people were not interested in the recent stories that writers were telling with her and that in many ways the classic character is not suited to the types of writers that are the major force in the industry today. A magical, lyrical, pacifist character has little use for a writer who pretty much just writes as if they are doing a play by play at a gladiatorial arena or video game. It is a shame that Azzarello didn't choose to stretch himself to serve the character rather than, by his own admission, use the character to serve an idea that he already had, as he does seem to want to do character interaction.

But to your comment about kids. I see plenty of kids today. I teach elementary, middle and high school children weekly. They have diverse interests. Sequential art and graphic storytelling can tell a huge array of stories. Yes, the Hunger Games was a huge hit, but Hugo (to my thinking) was probably a better more nuanced movie. And I know which movie I would prefer my WW to resemble. And I know which movie I would take a kid to go see. And I know which movie would have spoken to me as a child.

I am glad that you are enjoying the current run. However, I don't see why as part of that enjoyment there needs to be so much denigration of what came before.

I loved Hugo and that was a great example you made.

I also love Caldwell's romantic Wonder Woman books and animated series pitch which are both aimed at a younger audience. So i think i like romanticism. I especially prefer it for things aimed at children. This WW can still be marketed at kids. Look at GL. In his book people get sliced in half, hearts get pulled out of chests, and yet he has an animated series where none of that happens. Wonder Woman could do that too. Tone down the violence and you get this:



About romanticism in general, not just kids, i never said that they should do away with what came before. Just above i mention how all that can come back and WW can balance out, the way Batman did after going through his grimdark phase. But right now you cant have Hoplite warriors on invisible jets and expect to attract new readers, today's readers. You cant have long speeches and formal language and WW with a stick up her ***. Even Superman couldnt pull that off and now he's getting a soft reboot that does away with the mope and the speeches.

That was the golden age, where you could do anything. "Sure, let's put her in the american flag, let's give her an invisible plane, a pony, a kangaroo, and a flying saucer. Did i mention that she lives in a place that looks like ancient Athens times 10? Yeah, it all fits together nicely doesnt it? Centaurs and flying saucers."

In my opinion WW hasnt kept up the way other heroes have. Look at how Batman keeps shedding his skin every few years, look at how Johns updated GL (who already had gone from Scott to Hal, to Kyle, in other words through many characters, villains, iterations, corps or no corps, etc). WW was stagnant and thus she needs a bigger push to get back in the race. When she gets updated, then i'd be all for some Silver Age whackiness, but you should know, that even Morrison explained a lot of Batman stuff as hallucinations. I'm sure that even he would see that there's something wrong with certain things, like say Amazonian technology which is so arbitrary. They either have technology or they dont. You cant have them forging swords one day and flying invisible planes the other. They either have industry and advanced science or they dont.

It's things like that that ruined WW's internal consistency, the speeches, the fact that she and the Amazons barely ever faltered, the gender crap, etc. Azzarello didnt have to write a good plot, Chiang didnt have to bring good designs, they won me the minute they brought consistency and a more casual and human WW. Johns' swashbuckler WW is also amazing.

[Dr. Hurt]

I didn't reply cause I don't understand your point. Wonder Woman and the Amazons aren't trying to change the American govt. Marston has someone from a theocracy, monarchy come to save a Democracy cause it was important.

So what's you point against them?.....



I read it. You must have skimmed the part about the fact the point had nothing to do with her father(shocking). It's the fact that most stories told for girls don't feature mother's as important. Name how many fairy tales have a girl and her mother as central characters? It's always the father.

Again, the point isn't the exclusion of males, it's a focus on women and daughters.

Get this point clear, the exclusion of males isn't the same idea of males not being important. Just because you aren't the star or supporting character doesn't mean you have no role.

But her mother is still important because she didnt even know she had a father till now. I agree about fairy tales focusing on the father, it reflects the time that most of them were written in. But focus on the mother, dont go to the other end and wipe out the father.

[Dr. Hurt]

Also, about romanticism, studios keep making animated movies with female heroines. First Tangled and now Brave. I think i have mentioned somewhere how i'd love a WW animated movie in the style of Tangled. Get Caldwell on it and it will be golden.

So i think i'm all for fairy tales. I think most people are too if you take a look at how much Thor is loved, or how well received Journey into Mystery, or Demon Knights are. Or Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. Or how millions of people log on every day to play World of Warcraft, Lineage, League of Legends and other similar games based on mythology and stories about orcs, demons and knights.

WW needs to tap on that and i think Azzarello is doing that. The tone? Well it's just a tone. You can easily tell the same story in a lighter and more fun way. Hell, i'd love to see Johns' younger WW swashbuckling around the world and learning to be a hero. Because she never had to so far. I was just watching Thor and i loved that about him. Or how Batman had to travel around the world to become who he is. They even gave Superman a globe trotting adventure in Birthright even if he didnt need it. WW never had that.

And it could still be the same WW as Azzarello's just in different situations. The way Batman can be in both Inc and Detective.

I'm just rambing at this point....

[Rob_Olivera]

Perhaps i came off too strong. I didnt mean that you shouldnt have an opinion, i meant that DC will obviously want to increase WW's sales even if it outrages her core fanbase which is pretty small and not enough to sustain it. And we must face the fact that comics fans hate change, and WW fans are probably some of the most fanatic. Also, there's the fact that WW is tied to feminism so that ties her hands even more.

If i was a Batman fan and the franchise was dying, i'd prefer he be changed so that he may appeal to more people. People who perhaps dont have the same attachment as me, so they're more open to new concepts and interpretations. That's what's happening now with WW. They're giving her world it's own distinct feel, it's own power, along with making it a mix of Hellboy and 300 and Clash of the Titans.

For me the only bad point has been the Amazon thing, i'm sure there must have been a better way to go about this. But i wasnt attached to them before, in fact they bored me to tears, so i'm willing to let Azz finish his story and explain everything before i pass judgement. But all in all, i'm more interested in a Greek drama type of WW book (even if it is more bloody and gritty), than a comic book whose modern inc techniques are the only thing that set it apart from Golden Age. Ok, i'm exaggerating a bit, i know.

And like i've said before, if WW sticks, if she becomes successful, then you'll have more comics about her, more writers busting their heads to come up with cool pitches for DC. Right now its "Oh, i'm on WW duty? Oh no.... What do i write?" When that happens, when WW will be able to do whatever she wants and her fanbase will follow, we'll be able to have silver age whackiness (Morrison just pulled off zanny silver age Batman. Who saw that coming?) or simply bad plots (Blackest Night was pretty crap, but GL survived because he was already popular and it was a mindless blockbuster).

But if you have Golden Age Batman who doesnt sell so well, and you keep trying to make him sell, or you try Morrison's Silver Age thing, of course you're gonna fail. At the end of the day, Morrison embraced 100 different versions of Batman, because Batman can be anything. Naysayers (and i dont mean you, i'm talking in general):

Why cant WW?

I loved Hugo and that was a great example you made.

I also love Caldwell's romantic Wonder Woman books and animated series pitch which are both aimed at a younger audience. So i think i like romanticism. I especially prefer it for things aimed at children. This WW can still be marketed at kids. Look at GL. In his book people get sliced in half, hearts get pulled out of chests, and yet he has an animated series where none of that happens. Wonder Woman could do that too. Tone down the violence and you get this:



About romanticism in general, not just kids, i never said that they should do away with what came before. Just above i mention how all that can come back and WW can balance out, the way Batman did after going through his grimdark phase. But right now you cant have Hoplite warriors on invisible jets and expect to attract new readers, today's readers. You cant have long speeches and formal language and WW with a stick up her ***. Even Superman couldnt pull that off and now he's getting a soft reboot that does away with the mope and the speeches.

That was the golden age, where you could do anything. "Sure, let's put her in the american flag, let's give her an invisible plane, a pony, a kangaroo, and a flying saucer. Did i mention that she lives in a place that looks like ancient Athens times 10? Yeah, it all fits together nicely doesnt it? Centaurs and flying saucers."

In my opinion WW hasnt kept up the way other heroes have. Look at how Batman keeps shedding his skin every few years, look at how Johns updated GL (who already had gone from Scott to Hal, to Kyle, in other words through many characters, villains, iterations, corps or no corps, etc). WW was stagnant and thus she needs a bigger push to get back in the race. When she gets updated, then i'd be all for some Silver Age whackiness, but you should know, that even Morrison explained a lot of Batman stuff as hallucinations. I'm sure that even he would see that there's something wrong with certain things, like say Amazonian technology which is so arbitrary. They either have technology or they dont. You cant have them forging swords one day and flying invisible planes the other. They either have industry and advanced science or they dont.

It's things like that that ruined WW's internal consistency, the speeches, the fact that she and the Amazons barely ever faltered, the gender crap, etc. Azzarello didnt have to write a good plot, Chiang didnt have to bring good designs, they won me the minute they brought consistency and a more casual and human WW. Johns' swashbuckler WW is also amazing.

Dr. H,

I think it would be fair to say that pre-reboot WW was not your cup of tea, and that's expected as she wasn't alot of people's cup of tea (as sales show). Was this a character that you followed in any way? (in her own book).. or are you a buyer only since Oddysey or Azzarello? Personally I disliked the whole Ambassador routine. I prefer the more care-free attitude prior to that. I'm also glad to see that she's free of that responsability in this run. Of course, I'm not quite sure (ok.. yes, i'm sure) that there is probably nothing she could "teach" the outside world that carries over from her own. She obviously doesn't have any idea how her own people work (but is starting to realize it obviously).

As far as her in Justice League, I feel that Wonder Woman is a one-trick pony. Take away her sword and she'd feel lost. Supposedly they're in 'real time' now in that book, and she appears to have grown nothing. At least that's how I feel by reading it since in the last couple of books she has been nothing but wallpaper on the battle scene.

I have to admit I liked the Steve/Diana bit on issue 7 though.

[West Mantooth]

Now you're not answering my question. What's you're problem with her being from a monarchy/theocracy?

But her mother is still important because she didnt even know she had a father till now. I agree about fairy tales focusing on the father, it reflects the time that most of them were written. But focus on the mother, dont go to the other end and wipe out the father.

Are you for serious? This is exactly what we've been trying to get through to you about the problem with Azzarello's depiction of the Amazons.

If the Amazon's aren't the good people that raised Diana then Hippolyta is just a womb like all other fairy tales for girls. Diana is supposed to learn the lessons that make her Wonder Woman from being raised by a nation of good people including her mother. Hippolyta lying to her is nothing new(The Circle, Nubia). It's the fact now her being on the island means nothing if she just appears as Wonder Woman from the muck of an adultress and her boat seducing Amazons who hate men's stink when they aren't fertile and mock a little girl for being different as "clay."(Real inspirational stuff there Azz.)

The relationship bonds that make her WW are a lie. She's just an anomaly.

(Note:None of my point cares anything about her having a father. Hence why people's complaints began with that scene of the Amazon's stinky men comments before the father revelation was confirmed)

[Auguste Dupin]

Superman is supposed to be an inspiration to our behavior, right? Lex Luthor isn't against him cause he doesn't like him helping people. He's a false prophet.

The last time Superman had a definitive way to address "Truth and Justice" was when he used to beat up landlords in the 30s. Now he can't decide if he's supposed to intervene in domestic violence cases. So what's his "help" exactly?

"Amazonian Ways" is just a shorthand for equality?

We don't need a definite roadmap to equality any more than we need to know if Superman's "Truth and Justice" is pro-choice, pro-gun, or pro death penalty.




Except Superman's values don't come from Krypton. It's the Kent's that are the foundation of his moral code.

- He's supposed to be inspire people by example, yes. But you miss my point. Truth and Justice is just a catchphrase, not his entire motivation. Most of the time, he is not even the one who uses it. It was invented for a cartoon. That's closer to "Fighting War with Love" (a concept I understand, but one she has failed to be worthy of for at least 20 years) than to "The Amazonian Ways". Superman is supposed to inspire people to help each other, no matter how powerful they might be , by showing that even a man with the power of a god can want nothing more than to help. "Be good to others, and every man can be a Superman". Besides, Luthor believes that, by "helping" mankind, Superman steals from humans their true potentials, so yes, that's exactly what he hates about Superman (that or the fact he is more powerful than Lex, or that he burned his hair......). Wonder Woman, on the other hand, does use "The Amazonian Ways" all the time. It's obvious she is talking about more than a catchphrase about vague moral notions. It's supposed to be an entire ethical system that we have yet to be explained how it works.
The Amazonian Ways is a shorthand for equality? How could it be? How could the Amazon be equalitarian? Men aren't even allowed to set foot to their home. It's a sexual appartheid: men aren't allowed to take the same bus as the Amazons. Equality doesn't work like that. You would have tell me feminism, I would say "unspecific", but that would work. Equality? No way. Can't be that.

- Superman values can come from Krypton. In some versions, his Kryptonian parents have as big an influence on what he does that the Kents (Superman the movie for example, or even the Silver Age , where he remembered his Kryptonian parents). The fact Jor El and Lara have nothing to do with his moral values (because they are bastard) is as big of a change than the Amazons beings bastards themselves. The Amazons aren't Diana's Kent. Hyppolita is Diana's Kent. And we have yet to discover the specifics of what relation Hyppolita has with all this man killing stuff (especially since she has known the love of a man). We can make assumptions, but not claim to know.

[Dr. Hurt]

Dr. H,

I think it would be fair to say that pre-reboot WW was not your cup of tea, and that's expected as she wasn't alot of people's cup of tea (as sales show). Was this a character that you followed in any way? (in her own book).. or are you a buyer only since Oddysey or Azzarello? Personally I disliked the whole Ambassador routine. I prefer the more care-free attitude prior to that. I'm also glad to see that she's free of that responsability in this run. Of course, I'm not quite sure (ok.. yes, i'm sure) that there is probably nothing she could "teach" the outside world that carries over from her own. She obviously doesn't have any idea how her own people work (but is starting to realize it obviously).

I read Rucka and Simone's runs. Some random issues here and there, and then Odyssey and new 52 WW. I also watched pretty much every animated thing DC has put out and i liked her in all of it. I liked her quite a bit in JLU and her own movie.

As far as her in Justice League, I feel that Wonder Woman is a one-trick pony. Take away her sword and she'd feel lost. Supposedly they're in 'real time' now in that book, and she appears to have grown nothing. At least that's how I feel by reading it since in the last couple of books she has been nothing but wallpaper on the battle scene.

I have to admit I liked the Steve/Diana bit on issue 7 though.

Heh... expecting character work in JL are we?

I just like her 5 year younger self that comes to Man's World and she's a swashbuckler who seeks fun and adventure. She feels young, she feels interesting, and you know that she has much to learn, like Thor (i just watched the movie), and unlike her old self who was ready from the get go.

Hopefully someone who knows how to write an adventurous book, and who gets WW (at least this new one) can write new 52 Diana's origin. Coming to man's world and fighting furies while eating ice-cream!

[Dr. Hurt]

Now you're not answering my question. What's you're problem with her being from a monarchy/theocracy?

Well you dont get to preach to car owners when you have a horse do you?

Bad example... But i think i got my point across.

Are you for serious? This is exactly what we've been trying to get through to you about the problem with Azzarello's depiction of the Amazons.

If the Amazon's aren't the good people that raised Diana then Hippolyta is just a womb like all other fairy tales for girls. Diana is supposed to learn the lessons that make her Wonder Woman from being raised by a nation of good people including her mother. Hippolyta lying to her is nothing new(The Circle, Nubia). It's the fact now her being on the island means nothing if she just appears as Wonder Woman from the muck of an adultress and her boat seducing Amazons who hate men's stink when they aren't fertile and mock a little girl for being different as "clay."(Real inspirational stuff there Azz.)

The relationship bonds that make her WW are a lie. She's just an anomaly.

(Note:None of my point cares anything about her having a father. Hence why people's complaints began with that scene of the Amazon's stinky men comments before the father revelation was confirmed)

I disagree. Wonder Woman is a testament that the Amazons arent evil. The other is Hippolyta's acceptance of blame and fearlessness when standing in front of Hera, accepting the punishment she deserves.

You guys are seeing this in a very black and white manner. The Romans fed slaves to the lions so that they could be entertained in the Colosseum, but does that mean that they had no redeeming qualities as a society? That they just spent all day being evil? I think not, if anything they valued art, philosophy, technology, and have offered a lot to modern society. They were just raised in a different world, where human lives didnt have as much importance, when one day you were going about your way and the next you died of pneumonia, or stepped on the emperor's toe and he got you executed.

[Rob_Olivera]

I read Rucka and Simone's runs. Some random issues here and there, and then Odyssey and new 52 WW. I also watched pretty much every animated thing DC has put out and i liked her in all of it. I liked her quite a bit in JLU and her own movie.
Heh... expecting character work in JL are we?

I just like her 5 year younger self that comes to Man's World and she's a swashbuckler who seeks fun and adventure. She feels young, she feels interesting, and you know that she has much to learn, like Thor (i just watched the movie), and unlike her old self who was ready from the get go.

Hopefully someone who knows how to write an adventurous book, and who gets WW (at least this new one) can write new 52 Diana's origin. Coming to man's world and fighting furies while eating ice-cream!

Well.. you MAY get your wish! I read (in one of these threads) that DC will be doing a company-wide #0 (in place of 13) and presumably that will be done here in Wonder Woman as well. The #0's will be about the origins! So far we have solicits up to #11 so keep an eye out for when the 13's appear (or #0 rather). By timing alone, it should be Azzarello working her book.

[Dr. Hurt]

- He's supposed to be inspire people by example, yes. But you miss my point. Truth and Justice is just a catchphrase, not his entire motivation. Most of the time, he is not even the one who uses it. It was invented for a cartoon. That's closer to "Fighting War with Love" (a concept I understand, but one she has failed to be worthy of for at least 20 years) than to "The Amazonian Ways". Superman is supposed to inspire people to help each other, no matter how powerful they might be , by showing that even a man with the power of a god can want nothing more than to help. "Be good to others, and every man can be a Superman". Besides, Luthor believes that, by "helping" mankind, Superman steals from humans their true potentials, so yes, that's exactly what he hates about Superman (that or the fact he is more powerful than Lex, or that he burned his hair......). Wonder Woman, on the other hand, does use "The Amazonian Ways" all the time. It's obvious she is talking about more than a catchphrase about vague moral notions. It's supposed to be an entire ethical system that we have yet to be explained how it works.
The Amazonian Ways is a shorthand for equality? How could it be? How could the Amazon be equalitarian? Men aren't even allowed to set foot to their home. It's a sexual appartheid: men aren't allowed to take the same bus as the Amazons. Equality doesn't work like that. You would have tell me feminism, I would say "unspecific", but that would work. Equality? No way. Can't be that.

- Superman values can come from Krypton. In some versions, his Kryptonian parents have as big an influence on what he does that the Kents (Superman the movie for example, or even the Silver Age , where he remembered his Kryptonian parents). The fact Jor El and Lara have nothing to do with his moral values (because they are bastard) is as big of a change than the Amazons beings bastards themselves. The Amazons aren't Diana's Kent. Hyppolita is Diana's Kent. And we have yet to discover the specifics of what relation Hyppolita has with all this man killing stuff (especially since she has known the love of a man). We can make assumptions, but not claim to know.

I'd like to help you by adding that in the movie and i think in other versions, it was Jor El who taught him how to be a superhero. The Kents just laid the foundations and Jor El built upon them.

[Dr. Hurt]

Well.. you MAY get your wish! I read (in one of these threads) that DC will be doing a company-wide #0 (in place of 13) and presumably that will be done here in Wonder Woman as well. The #0's will be about the origins! So far we have solicits up to #11 so keep an eye out for when the 13's appear (or #0 rather). By timing alone, it should be Azzarello working her book.

I dont know if i want Azzarello on that. I understand that it's the nature of this story, the revelations about her, the greek god politics and all that, so perhaps WW wont always be so glum, but somehow i cant shake the feeling that Azzarello wont write the origin that i'd like. The swashbuckling WW i talked about.