Page 5 of 21 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 309
  1. #61
    Mark Millar Licks Goats BeccaBlast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    291

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reginleif View Post
    its actual the other way around; Germans are actually Scandinavian. the earliest recorded inhabitants of Germany were actually celtic, and slowly they were encroached upon during later Roman times, replacing them completely.
    So, by your logic, the Teutons and Franks (the Germanic tribe that pushed the Celts into Brittany) were Scandinavian -- which means the Franks you call barbarians are the same nation you give credit for civilizing the Irish, Scots and English (also Germanic in large part) at the point of a sword? Yeah go peddle that baggage somewhere else; it's got WAY too many unpleasant ramifications.
    Some days a girl wants to ride ponies. Some days a girl wants to punch tanks. Today ... is a tank day.

  2. #62
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Zanzibar
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BeccaBlast View Post
    So, by your logic, the Teutons and Franks (the Germanic tribe that pushed the Celts into Brittany) were Scandinavian -- which means the Franks you call barbarians are the same nation you give credit for civilizing the Irish, Scots and English (also Germanic in large part) at the point of a sword? Yeah go peddle that baggage somewhere else; it's got WAY too many unpleasant ramifications.
    Teutons were actually Celtic, so the idea of a Teutonic as being a representative of a greater Germanic culture is flawed. However Charlse, though he inherited a frankish state, he tried to model it after the Roman empire.

  3. #63

    Default

    Um, I'm pretty sure the topic isn't "Insights into European History" - or am I in the wrong room again? ;)

    At least tell me the Teutons wore star-spangled underpants or something.
    "... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
    - Longfellow

  4. #64
    Moderate Moderator Javier Velasco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    americanwonder is correct.

    Let's steer this back to Wonder Woman and leave "insights into European History" to another discussion group. :)

    But thank you for the illumination.

  5. #65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Not killing. Millions of people do it (or don't do it?) every day.
    But how do they preserve their way of life and continue to exist as a people?

    Didn't say other genres couldn't be used.
    You complained about it being dark.

    Did you see my other question above? Would the Amazons not being sex pirates really ruin this story for you?
    No, but it would negatively effect the story and Wonder Woman's characterization therein.

    Could. I'm all for Thomas Wayne as the real murderer of Martha. He's way too squeeky clean. And yet, people still find Superman and Batman interesting without digging up dirt in their parents' closets? How can that be?
    Wonder Woman can be interesting without the dark background, but she's also interesting with it and that's the story being told right now.

  6. #66
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by majormcmeat View Post
    Wonder Woman can be interesting without the dark background, but she's also interesting with it and that's the story being told right now.
    The problem is that the dark background is also a part of the nuDC reboot.
    Superhero comic books only become art to the extent that their banal, unrealistic fantasy and garish styles go too far and become interesting. Attempts to ground them in reality can only ruin them.

  7. #67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
    The problem is that the dark background is also a part of the nuDC reboot.
    So? If they ever want to change it back, they can and will. It's comics.

  8. #68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
    The problem is that the dark background is also a part of the nuDC reboot.
    It's not a problem, it's a solution. Adding realism only seems dark because things were so cliche and trite before, as Azarello put it "too clean".
    my artwork

    What if a child dreamed of becoming something other than what society had intended? What if a child aspired to something greater? Man of Steel

  9. #69

    Default

    With all of this talk about "perfection" vs "dirty barbarians"

    ... has anyone thought about the fact that DESPITE the "perfection" of the Amazon nation, Diana-- in seeing Steve Trevor and falling in love (yes, I'm going all pre Crisis) recognizes that there is something missing?

    Plus, can I just say it's friggin fantasy here.... I don't see why we can't have an all female utopia without everyone feeling threatened by the concept, or forcing some sense of "reality" on it because it's just too hard to suspend your disbelief for five minutes in a world where folks fly and a guy dressed up as a rodent somehow is able to be an amazing fighter without his cape or cowl getting in the way....

    I say we all need to relax a bit ^_^

    Matt

  10. #70
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    6,196

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonder39 View Post
    I don't see why we can't have an all female utopia without everyone feeling threatened by the concept, or forcing some sense of "reality" on it because it's just too hard to suspend your disbelief for five minutes in a world where folks fly and a guy dressed up as a rodent somehow is able to be an amazing fighter without his cape or cowl getting in the way....
    I don't feel threatened by it, but I'm fine with a different version too. It's something new. Relax and enjoy the story; your old comics will still be there.

  11. #71
    The Magnificent Bastard sberg1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Would the Amazons not being sex pirates really ruin this story for you?
    I hate that you're trying to demean this plot point by labeling them "sex pirates" when clearly there is more to it than that but to answer your question: while it wouldn't ruin the story it would certainly take away a developing layer of story, motivation and pathos for Diana. The story is richer and more layered and fully realized and causes an even more developed character motivation for her.

    So no, while taking out wouldn't make me hate the story it would also exclude the continued development of her heroic pathos, which to me, is worse than anything.
    Top DC: Wonder Woman
    Top Marvel: X-Men, Hawkeye, All New X-Factor, Ms. Marvel


    RIP I, Vampire

    Twitter!

  12. #72

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by majormcmeat View Post
    You complained about it being dark.
    My complaint is the "dirt" on the Amazons, not that the general story is dark. "The Hiketeia" is very much a Greek tragedy type of story (some may say it's pretty dark), and it's my among favorite WW stories. I fine with the general tone of the story.

    Also, my complaint about the Amazons is based on their depiction thus far. I do not really trust Hephy, nor think his account is 100% truth. I don't doubt the real possibility that Azzarello has something up his sleeve. I'm just commenting on the story we have thus far, leaving room to change my opinion as the story unfolds.

    Quote Originally Posted by fanboiii View Post
    It's not a problem, it's a solution. Adding realism only seems dark because things were so cliche and trite before, as Azarello put it "too clean".
    I love the "realism" arguement. WW just went to the Underworld and made a deal with Hades, trading 'love guns' for a woman pregnant with Zeus' kid, and you want "realism"? Because the story is just too unbelievable if the Amazons aren't sex pirates?

    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Velasco View Post
    americanwonder is correct.
    Can I put this in my sig?
    "... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
    - Longfellow

  13. #73
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    221B Baker Street
    Posts
    18,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonder39 View Post
    Plus, can I just say it's friggin fantasy here.... I don't see why we can't have an all female utopia without everyone feeling threatened by the concept, or forcing some sense of "reality" on it because it's just too hard to suspend your disbelief for five minutes in a world where folks fly and a guy dressed up as a rodent somehow is able to be an amazing fighter without his cape or cowl getting in the way....
    The issue isn't about it being too unrealistic. It's that it's not interesting.

  14. #74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sberg1 View Post
    I hate that you're trying to demean this plot point by labeling them "sex pirates" ...
    It's not my label. Got a better phrase we can use?

    Quote Originally Posted by sberg1 View Post
    ... when clearly there is more to it than that ...
    What more is there in the story we have thus far?

    Quote Originally Posted by sberg1 View Post
    ... while it wouldn't ruin the story it would certainly take away a developing layer of story, motivation and pathos for Diana. The story is richer and more layered and fully realized and causes an even more developed character motivation for her...
    I do not see layers, especially in these Amazons. I see simplistic, cliche and trite (to put it as nice as I can). Note: This does not apply to the whole story, just the depiction of the Amazons thus far.

    As for Diana, Batman, Superman, Spider-Man (all pretty successful characters) all manage to have interesting stories without throwing dirt on mom and dad, no?
    "... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
    - Longfellow

  15. #75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    The issue isn't about it being too unrealistic. It's that it's not interesting.
    Interesting is not an objective term. I don't find these Amazons interesting.
    "... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
    - Longfellow

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •