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  1. #1
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    Default 'Rama Interview: Brian Azzarello on WW


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    Senior Member WhitOro's Avatar
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    There was another thread but whatever.

    I like it, 'specially this passage:

    "From a storytelling perspective, perfection is death. You know? Where can you go? If she's in a perfect culture, if she's a perfect warrior, where are the challenges there? How do you argue against perfection? So we've got to dirty them up a bit."

    He wants to bring back the amazons, he wants a confrontation. It reminds me of this from another interview of his:
    "There aren't white hats and black hats. I think that's a creation of storytellers and it's something I don't agree with...It's boring. If the heroes are flawless there is no story. And if the villains are completely evil then they're boring too."
    He didn't took them away to erase WW history, he wants to expand it and develop it on another road.

    Even better, he realizes everybody loves Strife. Yeyeyeyeye.

  3. #3

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    Nrama: Maybe a few, but this title is selling better than Wonder Woman has in a long time, isn't it?

    Azzarello: Yeah, it is. But for me, the cool thing is that we've got people talking about her! People actually care what's going on in Wonder Woman. And there are a lot of new people who care.


    He's so, so right there. This is the first time I've ever cared about this title.

    Ever.
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    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    After seeing Azzarelo in a real life interview, every time I read one of him, I can't help but wonder how many "yes" or "it is" were nothing more than a grunt in the actual conversation.
    Still, he said mostly interesting stuff. I'm curious to where the whole thing is going. At the very least, his run had......unexpected twists.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

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    An Italian guy ken1989's Avatar
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    I'm glad that Azzarrello will stay on the book for awhile and I love some info that he gave........

    Azzarello: Yeah, it is. But for me, the cool thing is that we've got people talking about her! People actually care what's going on in Wonder Woman. And there are a lot of new people who care.
    Azzarrello is the man

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhitOro View Post
    I like it, 'specially this passage:

    "From a storytelling perspective, perfection is death. You know? Where can you go? If she's in a perfect culture, if she's a perfect warrior, where are the challenges there? How do you argue against perfection? So we've got to dirty them up a bit."
    Ah, the passage I dislike most. Why do I dislike it? Because it's false; it's a fake arguement. Either Azzarello doesn't know that WW and the Amazons were not "perfect," or he likes to tilt at strawmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhitOro View Post
    He didn't took them away to erase WW history, he wants to expand it and develop it on another road.
    I don't think anyone has said he was "erasing" WW history; but not all of us agree that his "expansion" is a good development on this dirty road.

    Aside from the apparent desire for Amazon dirt (perhaps he should work for a tabloid ), I enjoyed the interview and am glad to hear he plans on sticking around for awhile (though I suspect you all will hear more complaints from me about some of his story choices ).
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    Roll up the PARTITION plz Imraith Nimphais's Avatar
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    In true "Trini" parlance...Bring it come, Brian. I ready!

    Is it just me, or do some of his "yes, yes" answers sound very non-affirmative as in..."yeah, if that's wot you want to think...let's go with that."
    Last edited by Imraith Nimphais; 04-19-2012 at 01:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Ah, the passage I dislike most. Why do I dislike it? Because it's false; it's a fake arguement. Either Azzarello doesn't know that WW and the Amazons were not "perfect," or he likes to tilt at strawmen.
    Eh? Marston pretty much set the up as the ultimate form of human society...

    I don't think anyone has said he was "erasing" WW history; but not all of us agree that his "expansion" is a good development on this dirty road.
    Actually alot of people have at one time or another claimed Brian was annihilating everything WW was and meant...actually I am expecting one of them to post sooner or later.

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    Senior Member liopleurodon's Avatar
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    There are some great quotes there, my favorite:

    Azzarello: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. From a storytelling perspective, perfection is death. You know? Where can you go? If she's in a perfect culture, if she's a perfect warrior, where are the challenges there? How do you argue against perfection? So we've got to dirty them up a bit.

    That is exactly what I've been telling the detractors. A perfect society is a boring one. What Azz is doing is making WW's world interesting again.
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  10. #10
    Mark Millar Licks Goats BeccaBlast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhitOro View Post
    There was another thread but whatever.

    I like it, 'specially this passage:

    "From a storytelling perspective, perfection is death. You know? Where can you go? If she's in a perfect culture, if she's a perfect warrior, where are the challenges there? How do you argue against perfection? So we've got to dirty them up a bit."

    He wants to bring back the amazons, he wants a confrontation. It reminds me of this from another interview of his:
    "There aren't white hats and black hats. I think that's a creation of storytellers and it's something I don't agree with...It's boring. If the heroes are flawless there is no story. And if the villains are completely evil then they're boring too."
    He didn't took them away to erase WW history, he wants to expand it and develop it on another road.

    Even better, he realizes everybody loves Strife. Yeyeyeyeye.
    Funny, this is the statement that makes me the most nervous about his run -- like far too many commenters, he equates admirable with perfect. So, to "dirty them up a bit," they are shown as nothing but spiteful, misandrous, tribal, ignorant or duplicitous -- and that's BEFORE we get to Hephaestus and his self-serving (at best) tale. That's leaving him a pretty big hole to from which to climb.

    No one is expecting flawless heroes and purely evil villains. That's a straw man argument even in the hands of a gifted writer. I don't like the name-callers any more than Azzarello does -- a point I've made clear in several different forums -- but that doesn't mean I have to like every twist his story takes. Not every critic is insisting on white hats and black hats -- just a better job on showing the flaws in all the characters.

    And, no, not everyone loves Strife. She's nothing particularly special or unique in the villains throughout the comic's 7 decades -- in the hands of a good writer, she's good, and in the hands of a hack, she'd be less so. Azzarello gets full credit for making her as interesting as she is, but she's hardly a litmus test for reader sophistication or worth.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Eh? Marston pretty much set the up as the ultimate form of human society...
    Eh? When did Marston last write WW? I'm pretty sure Marston's WW hasn't been in continuity for quite some time now.

    Regardless, don't you think there's a bit of a difference between 'not perfect' and 'tossing baby boys off the cliff until Hephy shows up with some weapons'?

    eta:
    I mean, Ma and Pa Kent weren't "perfect," nor is Alfred, but even Azzarello didn't turn them into serial killers, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Actually alot of people have at one time or another claimed Brian was annihilating everything WW was and meant...actually I am expecting one of them to post sooner or later.
    Annihilated and erased are not the same thing. imo. I am one of those that think Azzarello's Amazons (thus far) is damaging to the WW story (that's putting it as nice and sanitised as I can muster).
    Last edited by americanwonder; 04-19-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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    Veteran Member Dr. Hurt's Avatar
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    More gods, more plots, more revelations and an end game!!!


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    Moderate Moderator Javier Velasco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liopleurodon View Post
    That is exactly what I've been telling the detractors. A perfect society is a boring one. What Azz is doing is making WW's world interesting again.
    Except that WW's world is NOT Paradise Island. Paradise Island is supposed to be WW's backstory. If someone wants to make WW's world "interesting" all they need to do is keep her off the island and do her superheroics in the Patrirach's Word. We all know that is imperfect, and there for "interestng". So there is no real need to mess with the Amazons, unless all you want to do is tell stories about the Amazons.

  14. #14
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Eh? When did Marston last write WW? I'm pretty sure Marston's WW hasn't been in continuity for quite some time now.

    Regardless, don't you think there's a bit of a difference between 'not perfect' and 'tossing baby boys off the cliff until Hephy shows up with some weapons'?

    eta:
    I mean, Ma and Pa Kent weren't "perfect," nor is Alfred, but even Azzarello didn't turn them into serial killers, right?



    Annihilated and erased are not the same thing. imo. I am one of those that think Azzarello's Amazons (thus far) is damaging to the WW story (that's putting it as nice and sanitised as I can muster).
    I think, in the end, it's more a matter of perception of the Amazons than an actual perfection. From what I read of, it felt like no matter how flawed they were showned to be, next issue they were still around explaining to men how their world is flawed and how they're supposed to take example on the Amazons' way of peace (who, Post Crisis, did as far as I know nothing to be looked upon). I remember this Jimenez issue (the one where Lois makes an interview of her) where she explains to President Luthor how the fact there has been this bloody fight amongst her own sisters damaged her credibility as the Ambassador's of the Amazons' peaceful way. And I was like, "well, duh! Your sisters just proved they were as violent and as ready to not going with a peaceful solution than us, of course people won't listen". I mean, the whole thing just proved that there is no such thing than Amazonians' peaceful ways (appart from living away from every other human beings from centuries). How am I supposed to take their attempt to teach man's world a better way, if not as a proof of arrogance and hypocrisy, after that? And yet, once Jimenez is out, no mention of it (as far as I can think of). The Amazons are back to teach us a better way. So, in a way, they were flawed, but weren't considered as such in universe (at least, weren't for longer than one issue). That's kind of the worst place to be for a character, because it makes them seem unworthy of the consideration they are getting.
    Here, at least it's consistent (for now ). They are (very) flawed, but we are not supposed to look upon them. So, I'm not sure there was much to damage in the first place. Honestly, I think Perez put the first nail on what is now the Amazons' coffin, by putting such an emphasis on them being warriors, and by trying to be at least partially connect them to Greek Mythology.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Eh? When did Marston last write WW? I'm pretty sure Marston's WW hasn't been in continuity for quite some time now.

    Regardless, don't you think there's a bit of a difference between 'not perfect' and 'tossing baby boys off the cliff until Hephy shows up with some weapons'?
    Skeletons in the closet, up until now the Amazons as a people only had the 4 fanatics Gail created...which wasn't much. And no, not really, because the Amazons are kinda the equal to Tolkien's Elves, they appear perfect from a distance until you get close enough to see the ugly details of their past.

    eta:
    I mean, Ma and Pa Kent weren't "perfect," nor is Alfred, but even Azzarello didn't turn them into serial killers, right?
    He did turn Martha Wayne into the Joker and made Thomas into an even more psychotic Batman than Bruce has ever been in the Flashpoint tie-in.
    Actually I have hard time remembering anytime when Ma and Pa Kent weren't the ideal parents.
    Annihilated and erased are not the same thing. imo. I am one of those that think Azzarello's Amazons (thus far) is damaging to the WW story (that's putting it as nice and sanitised as I can muster).[/QUOTE]

    Both means that things are undone.

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