Controversial Defenders Opinions

[Frank]

Namor should never have joined the Avengers nor the X-Men. Defenders should always have been his only (non) team.

Peace

Definitly not X-Men but I enjoyed Namor as part of the Avengers in the 80s with great drawings by John Buscema. Let's face it The Defenders was not being published at that time so it better have Namor somewhere than none at all, right? He had good chemistry with Hercules.

[mikekerrIII]

And the only reason he is with the Xmen is that he wants to bang Emma.

90% of this stuff makes sense in context.

The X-men and Namor had a common enemy when he joined, the folks that drove both of them out of their homes, they are fighting representatives of that enemy now.

[Nomads1]

i think Spider-woman (jessica drew) should have been a Defender instead of an Avenger

I don't see why not. Defender, of course.

Peace

[Nomads1]

My controversial opinion is that I don't mind at all that DeMatteis finally explained the "elf with a gun". A lot of people saw the original subplot as a testament to the absurdity of Gerber's run, but really, why put it there if you aren't going to do anything with it?

I don't mind the DeMatties explanation either, even though it led to the dissolution of the original Defenders. However, Gerber never got to conclude the subplot. The Elf was ran over by a truck after he left, by Gerry Conway, Roger Slifer and David Kraft in Defenders #46 (I pulled out the Essentials. Don't have THAT good a memory), probably because they had no idea where Gerber intended to go with it, and didn't want to leave it hanging. So I don't think it can be called a testament to the absurdity of Gerbers run (even if there WAS a lot of absurdity in it. Clowns, anyone?).

Peace

[Bad Wolf]

I don't mind the DeMatties explanation either, even though it led to the dissolution of the original Defenders. However, Gerber never got to conclude the subplot. The Elf was ran over by a truck after he left, by Gerry Conway, Roger Slifer and David Kraft in Defenders #46 (I pulled out the Essentials. Don't have THAT good a memory), probably because they had no idea where Gerber intended to go with it, and didn't want to leave it hanging. So I don't think it can be called a testament to the absurdity of Gerbers run (even if there WAS a lot of absurdity in it. Clowns, anyone?).

Ah, okay. I saw someone on a board somewhere express that sentiment and imply (if not state outright) that Gerber didn't intend to do anything with the elf, that it was just there as another bit of weirdness. I haven't read all of those early issues, so I took it at face value.

You have to admit, the Headmen were pretty absurd!

[Monty_Cristo]

Ah, okay. I saw someone on a board somewhere express that sentiment and imply (if not state outright) that Gerber didn't intend to do anything with the elf, that it was just there as another bit of weirdness. I haven't read all of those early issues, so I took it at face value.

You have to admit, the Headmen were pretty absurd!

Ruby was salvageable. i wasn't a huge fan of the gorilla dude or the mystic though.

[Frank]

I love the Defenders and Gerber is great but the Headmen sucked. sorry. Steve must have been high when he came up with them.

[Nomads1]

Ah, okay. I saw someone on a board somewhere express that sentiment and imply (if not state outright) that Gerber didn't intend to do anything with the elf, that it was just there as another bit of weirdness. I haven't read all of those early issues, so I took it at face value.

You have to admit, the Headmen were pretty absurd!

Ruby was salvageable. i wasn't a huge fan of the gorilla dude or the mystic though.

I love the Defenders and Gerber is great but the Headmen sucked. sorry. Steve must have been high when he came up with them.

Yes, though I really like Gerber's run (how could I not? He brought in the Guardians of the Galaxy, introduced Power Man and Red Guardian as members, plus, Sal Buscema was really killing in the art department.), sometimes the wierdness and quirkiness really got too much. Though I much prefer Englehart and Lein's work before him, Gerber's style did set the tone for most of the rest of the book's run (Defender's Day was pure homage to Gerber). Even DeMatteis, though much more serious in tone, did occasionally surrender to the absurd that was commun during Gerber's run.
That being said, I really wish they'd put out more of those classic Defenders adventures out on TPB. Though Gerber's Guardians of the Galaxy Saga is collected in the Earth Shall Overcome HC (In the future, I'll have to remember to include this one when talking about the few collections of Defenders material), there are still many great stories that would look beautiful in a TPB.
My list goes like this:

Headmen and Clowns (Defenders Vol.1 #31-40, plus Annual #1)
Who Remembers Scorpio? (Defenders Vol.1 #46-50, and I'd include the epilogue in #51. You might want also to throw in Defenders #42-45 in the mix. Though not directly tied in to the story, it gives a little bit of context, plus, they are pretty fun stories and the Keith Giffen art ties it up in a nice package.)
The Six Fingered Hand (Defenders Vol. 1 #93-100, plus you could also include the epilogue in #101. IMHO, the greatest Defenders saga of all.)
To Battle the Squadron Supreme is also cool, but a little bit short, even including the epilogue in #116, and #115 falls into a kind of sillines that has nothing to do with the acutal story (part of the above mentioned absurdity). Still, it can go from Defenders Vol.1 #112-116. Maybe throwing in the issue that precedded it #111, which is mostly set up, and Avengers Annual #11, which featured tyhe Second Avengers/Defenders clash, it'd be okay.
Next the complete Busiek and Larsen run, including the Order mini-series, that came right after it (18 issues in all, if I'm not mistaken).
There you go, five or six pretty exciting collections. Anyone has anyother ideas?
Oh, and remembering Avengers Annual #11, I really think it may be time for a new Avengers/Defenders War, however, seeing that most Defenders are now also Avengers, I wonder how'd that go?

Peace

[Bad Wolf]

Ruby was salvageable. i wasn't a huge fan of the gorilla dude or the mystic though.

Oh, I love the Headmen. When I describe them or that era as absurd I don't mean it in a bad way. I only have a couple issues from it but I really enjoy them, and can see why it's people's favorite.

When I first saw the group in the OHOTMU, I was fascinated with them. Who would put his head on a gorilla's body? Who would replace hers with a featureless sphere? It was insane. (I can't remember what Chondu's story was offhand, but at least Jerry Morgan's condition was an accident.)

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

Who Remembers Scorpio? (Defenders Vol.1 #46-50, and I'd include the epilogue in #51. You might want also to throw in Defenders #42-45 in the mix. Though not directly tied in to the story, it gives a little bit of context, plus, they are pretty fun stories and the Keith Giffen art ties it up in a nice package.)
The Six Fingered Hand (Defenders Vol. 1 #93-100, plus you could also include the epilogue in #101. IMHO, the greatest Defenders saga of all.)
To Battle the Squadron Supreme is also cool, but a little bit short, even including the epilogue in #116, and #115 falls into a kind of sillines that has nothing to do with the acutal story (part of the above mentioned absurdity). Still, it can go from Defenders Vol.1 #112-116. Maybe throwing in the issue that precedded it #111, which is mostly set up, and Avengers Annual #11, which featured tyhe Second Avengers/Defenders clash, it'd be okay.
Peace

Definitely agree with all of these. Just re-read the first 40 issues (ala the Essential series, nice to take to work for breaks and lunches) and was more eager to get to issue #42 than anything.

[Nomads1]

Oh, I love the Headmen. When I describe them or that era as absurd I don't mean it in a bad way. I only have a couple issues from it but I really enjoy them, and can see why it's people's favorite.

When I first saw the group in the OHOTMU, I was fascinated with them. Who would put his head on a gorilla's body? Who would replace hers with a featureless sphere? It was insane. (I can't remember what Chondu's story was offhand, but at least Jerry Morgan's condition was an accident.)

If memory serves me, Chondu, at first, was a fairly normal guy with a turbant, who has his brain transplanted into Kyle Richmond's body. When that is undone (by Doc Strange and the brilliant russian neuro-surgeon Tania Belinsky, aka the female Red Guardian), Morgan sticks his brain in a monstrous body, that is a menagerie of all kind of cliche creatues you can imagine. If I recall it right, he didn't take it very well.

Peace

[strathcona]

If memory serves me, Chondu, at first, was a fairly normal guy with a turbant, who has his brain transplanted into Kyle Richmond's body. When that is undone (by Doc Strange and the brilliant russian neuro-surgeon Tania Belinsky, aka the female Red Guardian), Morgan sticks his brain in a monstrous body, that is a menagerie of all kind of cliche creatues you can imagine. If I recall it right, he didn't take it very well.

Peace

Don't forget that Jack Norris and a deer named Bambi were also involved in the brain swapping.

Also, Chondu, Jerry Morgan and Nagan are all pre-FF MU characters that Gerber brought back when he created the Headmen. So it isn't like he created the characters. He just used what was already there.

[Bad Wolf]

Don't forget that Jack Norris and a deer named Bambi were also involved in the brain swapping.

Yeah, the angry deer issue is the one I have. In that issue they are trying to capture Nighthawk so they can put Chondu in his body.

[Nomads1]

Don't forget that Jack Norris and a deer named Bambi were also involved in the brain swapping.

Also, Chondu, Jerry Morgan and Nagan are all pre-FF MU characters that Gerber brought back when he created the Headmen. So it isn't like he created the characters. He just used what was already there.

Chonu had some kind of psychic abilities, didn't he?

Controversial opinion:

Clea, Devil Slayer and Andromeda were three Defenders that we didn't get to see enough of.

Peace

[Bad Wolf]

I didn't like Devil Slayer much but I agree about Clea and Andromeda.