AvX #2 *Spoilers*

[Lascoden]

Personally I think Finesse and Veil are the most powerful. Finesse is Taskmaster's daughter, and he is no joke. If Veil had a full working knowledge of Chemistry she could be a force of nature.

Well, we don't know if Finesse is TM's daughter, yet, and it seems there is some mental problems that come with her powers. I say Hazmat is the most powerful. We saw that she has the potential to generate blasts of anti-matter, and she even took down Korvac. All of them have the potential to be big threats, just not world-enders.

[Ebon Phantom]

Where would they go? Their home has been destroyed. I've no doubt they could fight their way out of the Academy but to what end? Soon as word got out that they were free every alphabet agency in the US government of the MU would be after them, from Gyrich to Hill they'd be hunted down and after that... Well look at what SHIELD did to captured Hulk foes. I have enough faith left in Cap that as long as they stay where he tells them he can stop the US government agencies from experimenting on them, but once they are out of his sight and into the twilight world of people like Hill or Gyrich or who Brand-who it should be noted has already kept a mutant around to experiment on once before-they don't have much hope. Not that they have a lot of hope anyway, they are mutants in America. Their lives are going to spent in pain and struggle for a people who hate them and a government that would rather they not have been born at all.

They are safer-as silly as that sounds in this context-being prisoners in the Academy.

Mark_S

Presumably if they escaped, they would go to the next safest place, back to the school where they know there is protection. It's not like the Gold side would turn them away or anything.

The X-Kids who JUST got their start being taught in the use of their powers are going to kick the @$$ of kids being trained for considerably longer, in combat scenarios for the express purpose of using their abilities offensively?

Just started? Maybe the Lights, but even they have been in quite a few high risk situations. The rest of the young X-men have plenty more experience then the Academy children.

[mikekerrIII]

Just started? Maybe the Lights, but even they have been in quite a few high risk situations. The rest of the young X-men have plenty more experience then the Academy children.

They have just started if a decade of time in the x-men counts as just started or eight years for Pixie and Surge and you diseguard the dozens of fights they have been in since joining. But I guesess they have just started if you have never read a new mutants book and don't read X-books

[XPac]

It's not as if Scott shot Cap before he could get a single word out. He shot him after it was established that Cap wasn't gonna eave without Hope, that he wasn't gonna take no for an answer. Cap, the one who is asking for something from Scott, should have been the one willing to compromise, not make demands. That's the key point. There was no reasoning with him for Scott. The only choice Cap ave him was to give up Hope, which Scott wasn't gonna do.

They had like a two minute conversation.

Real diplomatic talks between leaders can take hours, if not days or weeks.

Again, if Cyclops can't refrain from flat out shooting at people two minutes into a conversation then he frankly needs someone else to act in this capacity.

Again, what's the upside in Scott handling it the way he did? If there was one, I'm not seeing it.

[XPac]

We specifically saw that Scott didn't consider mutants not subject to human laws with Joseph and Cable. So it really was about the actual arrestment of said mutants, not some signal that they could do as they wanted and disregard the law. And his current letter established that he was bluffing about acting against those that disagreed. So while he's not following Xavier's path, it's not as if he's acting in opposite of it.

They brought a helicarrier and jets to their home, where they knew there were children. And we don't know how it went down yet. A forced retreat before he could get them is a far different thing then outright abandonment. Now considering Emma is set to rescue them and the JG teachers are willing to side with him, I doubt he left them by choice.

If Scott was indeed bluffing (a notion I find entirely believable given how foolhardy the first letter was), then that only makes them look weaker. Fear as a deterent only goes so far if you're not willing to actually back up your claims.

Ultimately it was a no win situation for Scott. Obviously the world wasn't going to bow down to his demands... that's a given. So he either looks weak by not backing up his bold words, or he ends up looking like a monster and likely generating even greater opposition for mutants by backing them up.

[XPac]

So when Avengers get caught in Latveria, rescue is off the table?

You're seriously comparing Scott deciding no mutants on earth are subject to human law to rescuing Avengers in Latveria?

Even for you, that's goal posting on a pretty massive scale.

[DeadXMan]

Dude Spidey is buddies with Doom via FF

If anyone is going tobe put to death,it's that godless dirty commie.

[Ebon Phantom]

They had like a two minute conversation.

Real diplomatic talks between leaders can take hours, if not days or weeks.

Again, if Cyclops can't refrain from flat out shooting at people two minutes into a conversation then he frankly needs someone else to act in this capacity.

Again, what's the upside in Scott handling it the way he did? If there was one, I'm not seeing it.

And real diplomatic talks are about give and take, not ultimatums. Again, you're acting as if Scott shot Cap in the middle of a comment. He shot Cap after Cap stated that he wasn't asking. Before that, he was more or less listening, if not going along with the discussion.

If Scott was indeed bluffing (a notion I find entirely believable given how foolhardy the first letter was), then that only makes them look weaker. Fear as a deterent only goes so far if you're not willing to actually back up your claims.

Ultimately it was a no win situation for Scott. Obviously the world wasn't going to bow down to his demands... that's a given. So he either looks weak by not backing up his bold words, or he ends up looking like a monster and likely generating even greater opposition for mutants by backing them up.

Considering is team was suppose to be the "nuclear arsenal" of mutantkind, wouldn't him being willing to back up his claim be worst? And what demands? The only thing he asked was to be allowed to handle how mutants were jailed. Considering we know Cap knew of him keeping various threats in Utopia's brig and from what we saw in the Magneto mini, it doesn't seem like anyone had a issue with him handling jailing mutants seeing how the only real conflict was over Wanda, an "Avenger".

[mikekerrIII]

You're seriously comparing Scott deciding no mutants on earth are subject to human law to rescuing Avengers in Latveria?

Even for you, that's goal posting on a pretty massive scale.

Doom is the movement there as much as the POTUS is in the US.

People only have to obey the laws of some nations and not others?

[XPac]

And real diplomatic talks are about give and take, not ultimatums. Again, you're acting as if Scott shot Cap in the middle of a comment. He shot Cap after Cap stated that he wasn't asking. Before that, he was more or less listening, if not going along with the discussion.

Considering is team was suppose to be the "nuclear arsenal" of mutantkind, wouldn't him being willing to back up his claim be worst? And what demands? The only thing he asked was to be allowed to handle how mutants were jailed. Considering we know Cap knew of him keeping various threats in Utopia's brig and from what we saw in the Magneto mini, it doesn't seem like anyone had a issue with him handling jailing mutants seeing how the only real conflict was over Wanda, an "Avenger".

But sometimes give and take takes time to work out. These guys truthfully don't even know what the other actually plans to do... it's theoretically possible there might actually be some middle ground between them. But it can time and discussion to work out. And perhaps they might not have been able to work something out... but that hardly means some effort beyond Scotts 2 minute convo wouldn't have at least been worth a try.

Can you seriously imagine any sort of real world negotiations where one side decides to shoot the other after only like 2 minutes of talk? And this is the second time it's happened. Scott CANNOT fuction in this capacity if he continues to act in this manner. It's simply not good for the people he's representing.

And I do imagine plenty of people don't have issues with Scott jailing mutants. But point really is that the nations have EVERY right to prosecute a mutant for commiting a crime in their nation if they choose to. If they don't want to bother, then no harm no foul (though it does potentially deny proper due process). If they DO choose to administer due process, then Cyclops has no say in the matter. Simple as that. Scott can either accept the fact that he has no authority to dictate due process in other nations, or he can unlawfully attack people for it. But he doesn't get to dictate policy. Not in other peoples backyard.

[XPac]

Doom is the movement there as much as the POTUS is in the US.

People only have to obey the laws of some nations and not others?

The point I'm making is there are probably SOME occasions where it MIGHT be justifed to ignore the laws of another nation.

But that doens't mean you're justified in deciding a specific group of people can ignore every law in every nation on the earth.

Do I really have to explain the difference to you there?

[Lascoden]

The point I'm making is there are probably SOME occasions where it MIGHT be justifed to ignore the laws of another nation.

But that doens't mean you're justified in deciding a specific group of people can ignore every law in every nation on the earth.

Do I really have to explain the difference to you there?

But Scott didn't say that they were exempt from the laws, or punishment. Just that he wanted to handle the punishment. Utopia has the best prison on Earth, perfectly suited for any mutant. Besides, nations telling other nations what they can or can't do happens all the time. It's what the UN is all about. And you can have membership in the UN even if you aren't a true nation.

[deathcry]

But Scott didn't say that they were exempt from the laws, or punishment. Just that he wanted to handle the punishment. Utopia has the best prison on Earth, perfectly suited for any mutant. Besides, nations telling other nations what they can or can't do happens all the time. It's what the UN is all about. And you can have membership in the UN even if you aren't a true nation.

A prison so good that a kid broke Quentin Quire out of it?
I think Scott's declaration that they would take care of mutants, regardless of the legal status of Utopia, can be considered justifiable when your species is down to less than 200 people. Any government could simply detain mutants for any reason, then do whatever they want then...which would be very scary for that species. That number could go down to < 100 very quickly.

[Genesis X]

But Scott didn't say that they were exempt from the laws, or punishment. Just that he wanted to handle the punishment. Utopia has the best prison on Earth, perfectly suited for any mutant. Besides, nations telling other nations what they can or can't do happens all the time. It's what the UN is all about. And you can have membership in the UN even if you aren't a true nation.

A prison so good that a kid broke Quentin Quire out of it?
I think Scott's declaration that they would take care of mutants, regardless of the legal status of Utopia, can be considered justifiable when your species is down to less than 200 people. Any government could simply detain mutants for any reason, then do whatever they want then...which would be very scary for that species. That number could go down to < 100 very quickly.

not even that, the prison warden (danger) is being controlled by the inmate unit, and magick was imply to be able to break herself out whenever she wants, and this is the best utopia has? they really need to get tony working on that prison before one of the prisoners decide to mind control their so called messiah, with the phoenix on its way, it may cause DPS 2.0

[Lascoden]

A prison so good that a kid broke Quentin Quire out of it?
I think Scott's declaration that they would take care of mutants, regardless of the legal status of Utopia, can be considered justifiable when your species is down to less than 200 people. Any government could simply detain mutants for any reason, then do whatever they want then...which would be very scary for that species. That number could go down to < 100 very quickly.

I though Quentin was in a jar in Beast's lab? He wasn't technically a criminal at that point, he caused the riot while mind controlled. Still, that's a far greater rate then places like the Cube, or the Raft. I didn't say inescapable, just better then the others. But, yes, I think that most of it was done out of concern out of what may happen to mutants under detained by other nations. I believe that was even stated in the letter.