AvX #2 *Spoilers*

**Sunbird** · 04-30-2012, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by XPac

My personal opinion... I think it's being written the way it is because Scotts little kingdom is probably going to come crashing down on him sooner or later. And I think a message is made if things end up badly because he chose to turn away from Xaviers way of doing things and started down the Magneto path. Had Utopia failed under the Xavier model, it might have sent the wrong message.

But of course all that is just speculation... it's possible that Utopia doesn't fail, or it if fails it won't necessarily be because of Scotts way of dealing with things. We'll see.

No, I think you are right, they are setting up Scott to take a fall. Count me among the X-Fans unhappy with the way Scott is being written - has been written for a long time. (Then again, I still think M-Day was the worst thing that ever happened to the line). Not that I think Captain America or Wolverine are getting it any better, but I'll be surprised, very surprised, if Scott is alive at the end, or if he is that he is still the leader. Perhaps if they undo M-Day properly it will be worth it, but it is depressing watching them paint Scott with the jerk stick to make him the bad guy for the Avengers to pummel.

**AcesX1X** · 04-30-2012, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by mikekerrIII

You really need to read that series, honesly. that is not what happened. the guy who was acting like a mad bomber (literally) there was Wolverine

yes, people often gloss over the detail where wolverine was running around with a bomb detonator, threatening to blow the whole island up with all the kids still on it.

**TonyStark1012** · 04-30-2012, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by mikekerrIII

You really need to read that series, honesly. that is not what happened. the guy who was acting like a mad bomber (literally) there was Wolverine

I didn't say Wolverine was acting right in Schism. What I am saying is that Cyclops was building up to this for years in X-Men. I read Second Coming and Messiah Complex and X-Men issues during those times. Cyclops didn't even know what Cable was doing yet and he was already willing to kill his son in one of those events.

**TonyStark1012** · 04-30-2012, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by AcesX1X

yes, people often gloss over the detail where wolverine was running around with a bomb detonator, threatening to blow the whole island up with all the kids still on it.

I know Wolverine tried to do that. I thought had better points then wolverine during Schism, but what about all the writing that went into cyclops state of mind before Schism.

**Wren** · 04-30-2012, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mark_S

Protective custody... what are the kids being protected from? The Avengers are the ones who seem to have destroyed their home in their pursuit of Hope. Gotta admit Academy is a title I'm really curious about right now because the writer has given a tremendous challenge: How do kids who've been grabbed away from their home cope? I hope he doesn't sweep that under the rug like so many writers at marvel do.

Mark_S

Not sure about that. Between Collossus going nuts and almost destroying the pillar, and Magneto using Utopia's towers as weapons, the Avengers have actually been shown to be trying to protect the island (Rulk). Not that this isn't standard superhero fare, but the X-Men aren't being particularly careful with the island or the kids.

**LeonardEugenius** · 04-30-2012, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Umbra

Yeah, I mean it might be too early, but it looks like they are in protective custody...
Yesterday folks were talking about "family"...and Scott basically left them all. His "family"? Aren't they a part of it...or are they just like Bishop? Family as long as you follow King Scott...but when you don't...idk. Interesting

Granted we don't what happened, but I highly doubt the X-Men "left" them there. Just because they didn't join the other X-Men in searching for Hope doesn't mean they were "abandoned." Not only that, there are adults with them. They were left under the supervision of adults they know and trust, who are also at Avengers Academy with them. No one says Luke Cage abandoned his baby every time he goes to fight and leaves her with Squirrel Girl. What if they just didn't want to go around the globe hunting for Hope? It seems the relocation may be due to Utopia being uninhabitable at the moment.

**LeonardEugenius** · 04-30-2012, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Wren

Not sure about that. Between Collossus going nuts and almost destroying the pillar, and Magneto using Utopia's towers as weapons, the Avengers have actually been shown to be trying to protect the island (Rulk). Not that this isn't standard superhero fare, but the X-Men aren't being particularly careful with the island or the kids.

I think the implication with Colossus and Red Hulk was that Red Hulk didn't care if the pillar broke. It was almost like, "So what, you're winning? You'll sink the whole island." He didn't point that out of the goodness of his heart. I took away from that scene that even if they moved he would try and lure Colossus back to the pillar since he obviously wasn't going to beat him fighting. Colossus, to me, was actually the better person in that situation. He overcame demonic influence and sacrificed himself for the good of his people.

**The_Ronin** · 04-30-2012, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by LeonardEugenius

I think the implication with Colossus and Red Hulk was that Red Hulk didn't care if the pillar broke. It was almost like, "So what, you're winning? You'll sink the whole island." He didn't point that out of the goodness of his heart. I took away from that scene that even if they moved he would try and lure Colossus back to the pillar since he obviously wasn't going to beat him fighting. Colossus, to me, was actually the better person in that situation. He overcame demonic influence and sacrificed himself for the good of his people.

If he didn't care he'd of just let Colossus destroy it, then escape from the ruble as Colosuss' entire world came crashing down around him. which would net the Avengers a massive morale victory. And possibly taking Colossus out of the fight due to the distress of destroying his own home. Ross clearly showed some restraint by pointing it out.

Now perhaps he didn't care THAT much if it came down, but there you go.

**LeonardEugenius** · 04-30-2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ronin

If he didn't care he'd of just let Colossus destroy it, then escape from the ruble as Colosuss' entire world came crashing down around him. which would net the Avengers a massive morale victory. And possibly taking Colossus out of the fight due to the distress of destroying his own home. Ross clearly showed some restraint by pointing it out.

Now perhaps he didn't care THAT much if it came down, but there you go.

I really can't see Ross caring. I think he pointed it out because he was getting his teeth smashed in and it presented an opportunity for him to beat Colossus. Not only that, but if the island crashed on the both of them, I doubt he would've just gotten up and skipped away. Ross is a certified maniac. People always talk about Wolverine being an Avenger, but Ross is the scarier one to me. I don't think that Utopia sinking would do anything for the Avengers morale. They don't want to hurt the X-Men, they just want Hope.

**Wren** · 04-30-2012, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by LeonardEugenius

I really can't see Ross caring. I think he pointed it out because he was getting his teeth smashed in and it presented an opportunity for him to beat Colossus. Not only that, but if the island crashed on the both of them, I doubt he would've just gotten up and skipped away. Ross is a certified maniac. People always talk about Wolverine being an Avenger, but Ross is the scarier one to me. I don't think that Utopia sinking would do anything for the Avengers morale. They don't want to hurt the X-Men, they just want Hope.

I remembered it differently, that Rulk was trying to both protect the pillar and give himself a breather with a change of scene, but I could have mis-remembered. Anyway between that fight and Namor's and Magneto's, the island really doesn't look safe. For the record, I kind of agree about Ross... unfortunately BendisRoss just has a bit of a surly attitude and lots of soldier slang.

I'm surprised they didn't put the kids with Wolverine's school (which has a larger faculty-- AA is only 4 adults to upwards of 20 kids)... but it probably ends up for the best, considering the school's about to become ground zero for an alien war for the phoenix.

**The_Ronin** · 04-30-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Wren

I remembered it differently, that Rulk was trying to both protect the pillar and give himself a breather with a change of scene, but I could have mis-remembered. Anyway between that fight and Namor's and Magneto's, the island really doesn't look safe. For the record, I kind of agree about Ross... unfortunately BendisRoss just has a bit of a surly attitude and lots of soldier slang.

I'm surprised they didn't put the kids with Wolverine's school (which has a larger faculty-- AA is only 4 adults to upwards of 20 kids)... but it probably ends up for the best, considering the school's about to become ground zero for an alien war for the phoenix.

If I was Cap i'd of sent them to the compound, its closer, and more importantly its ran by Avengers... Something tells me Cap's trust of Wolverine is running Thin. In addition to the fact that the Wolverine School might not be as behind the Avengers as Wolverine himself is.

**Mark_S** · 04-30-2012, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Umbra

Yes after Scott attacked first...you seem to believe they are out to hurt them, it's pretty clear they are not. Scott left his family. He left. Let's not spin this. He took off...After hope laid them out.

And yeah, protection from a leader who is showing extreme poor judgement. In my opinion...it's likely they will just be there with the other kids...But that's what a authority would do.

They might not see it that way. From their point of view the Avengers show up with a helicarier and troops and suddenly their home is the center ring in a super showdown and pretty much destroyed and the Avengers then say "Ok, you're going to live here now, not under arrest, but you can't leave." or words to that effect. What would you think if you were one of the kids?

Mark_S

**Lascoden** · 04-30-2012, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Wren

I remembered it differently, that Rulk was trying to both protect the pillar and give himself a breather with a change of scene, but I could have mis-remembered. Anyway between that fight and Namor's and Magneto's, the island really doesn't look safe. For the record, I kind of agree about Ross... unfortunately BendisRoss just has a bit of a surly attitude and lots of soldier slang.

I'm surprised they didn't put the kids with Wolverine's school (which has a larger faculty-- AA is only 4 adults to upwards of 20 kids)... but it probably ends up for the best, considering the school's about to become ground zero for an alien war for the phoenix.

Rulk was laughing when he pointed at the pillar. I think he was planning on that stopping Colossus, not out of concern for the the island.

**The_Ronin** · 04-30-2012, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by LeonardEugenius

I really can't see Ross caring. I think he pointed it out because he was getting his teeth smashed in and it presented an opportunity for him to beat Colossus. Not only that, but if the island crashed on the both of them, I doubt he would've just gotten up and skipped away. Ross is a certified maniac. People always talk about Wolverine being an Avenger, but Ross is the scarier one to me. I don't think that Utopia sinking would do anything for the Avengers morale. They don't want to hurt the X-Men, they just want Hope.

Well theres a few things there. 1) Its clearly wrote in a way that you have to make assumptions about Rhulk's actions, We don't get internal dialogue from him and he can't talk. So you can draw your own conclusions. I think he did care in some way. Ross is a military man but hes not an absolute monster. He knows there are the equivilent of non-combatants on the island.

2) That said sinking of Utopia would be a morale victory, or rather it can be seen that way, not in that it will boost the Avengers morale, because you are right they don't want ot hurt the X-men but in that it might demoralize the X-men. They fought a fight they could of avoided (via doing what the Avengers said) and it cost them their home through their own actions. (Colossus being demon powered and all that)

Mind you they might of blamed the Avengers, or not known who was responsible. But I think Colossus would be weary of Juggernauting out in the future if he just destroyed their home.

3) as for skipping away? Perhaps not but I doubt the island coming down would of killed either of them.

It seems to be if he just wanted to win the fight letting Colossus take the island down would of scored 'his side' several important tactical and strategic victories at once, and being a military man I think he knew this.

But as I said its wrote in such a way you can read into it what you want.

**Mark_S** · 04-30-2012, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Sunbird

No, I think you are right, they are setting up Scott to take a fall. Count me among the X-Fans unhappy with the way Scott is being written - has been written for a long time. (Then again, I still think M-Day was the worst thing that ever happened to the line). Not that I think Captain America or Wolverine are getting it any better, but I'll be surprised, very surprised, if Scott is alive at the end, or if he is that he is still the leader. Perhaps if they undo M-Day properly it will be worth it, but it is depressing watching them paint Scott with the jerk stick to make him the bad guy for the Avengers to pummel.

In my opinion so long as this event sells then the character is expendable to the marvel editors/writers.

Mark_S