Wonder Woman #8 review

[Mr. Holmes]

On the other hand there are discrepencies. Her seemingly vengeful attitude towards Hera, declaring that she will find a way to punish her as long as she lives, seems at odds with WW's core. I think from past reading Diana would spend more time looking for a way to restore her mother and reconcile with Hera than to make her suffer for her misdeeds. She would never stop defending Zola, but neither would she extend the conflict one second longer than was necessary.

If it's against Wonder Woman's core to have human feelings, then I'm glad they're changing it.

[Sacred Knight]

Only one thing bothered me about this issue. I'm having a bit of trouble accepting how easily Diana just accepted the trade of Eros' guns for Zola. Now I'm not saying WW needs to be omnipotent, but I would have liked to have seen some hesitation there, the idea that despite being more than willing to do it for Zola, in the back of her mind she knows that Hades is a tricky little bastard so is wary.

Everything else though, fantastic as usual. Like how they sidestepped the slow progression of the pregnancy by having time flow differently in hell, so Zola's just about ready to pop.

[dshipp17]

Only one thing bothered me about this issue. I'm having a bit of trouble accepting how easily Diana just accepted the trade of Eros' guns for Zola. Now I'm not saying WW needs to be omnipotent, but I would have liked to have seen some hesitation there, the idea that despite being more than willing to do it for Zola, in the back of her mind she knows that Hades is a tricky little bastard so is wary.

Everything else though, fantastic as usual. Like how they sidestepped the slow progression of the pregnancy by having time flow differently in hell, so Zola's just about ready to pop.

Actually, now that I think about that scene a bit more, I think freeing Zola and the unborn baby was the perfect reason for Wonder Woman to behave in such a manner; there was basically no other available option for her; since I've been in those situations a few times, I can clearly understand Diana's decision; although Wonder Woman could make another way for herself out of Hades, perhaps, Zola could not, at least not to the level of Wonder Woman.

[brettc1]

I don't think anything is at odds with the Wonder Woman character in this run (she's a little different but nothing rises to the level of her being at odds with herself); what you're stating is an idealized version of your own creation which never specifically existed, particularly post-crisis; again, look back over her exchanges with Dr. Psycho post-crisis and give specifics of where this idea comes from, as it relates to the character; it might be somewhat true in her dynamics with the Silver Swan, a female, but that would clearly show a bias, but one consist with her background; I'm sensing that you're claiming that she was virtuous, as opposed to good, but you can be clearer.

No, I disagree. Gail Simone's run had very specific examples. Letting the GL beat on her after she had defeated him in battle to make the point that she didnt want to be his enemy. Giving the alien warrior Theana to option of surrendering even though it meant she also had the otion of killing Diana and dying with her [not unlikely if you look at Theana's character. Also the flashback of her treatment of Morrow which leads him to help her against Genocide.

Even further back that than, we see her give both Zeus and Hades the option of ending a conflict peacefully during the Rucka run.

Further back still, she chastises Cassandra for seeeking vengeance against Vanessa when she is turned in Silver Swan. Not just because its Nessie, but because that is not the Amazon way. And even earlier than that we see her during the space pirates saga preventing the torture of a helpless prisoner who would certainly not have returned the courtesy prior.

Those are just a few examples off the top of my head and by no means a comprehensive list.

I think you are right in saying that to an extent Wonder Woman is idealized because that is the sort of the character she was created to be - she represents an idea in the same as Captain America. That doesnt necessarily make her less human - her strength is not that she is untouched by baser impulses but she constantly struggles against them. And as I have indicated this idea has not arisen from nothing - I am basing my outlook on very specific and numerous examples.

[brettc1]

If it's against Wonder Woman's core to have human feelings, then I'm glad they're changing it.

See above. Diana has the same dark impulses as everyone else but she does not allow herself to succumb to them - for the most part. She has lapses: she can have a nasty temper, we have seen in the past, but in the moment, not as something that is planned.

[slvn]

If it's against Wonder Woman's core to have human feelings, then I'm glad they're changing it.

Yeah--she had just lost her whole family to Hera; I don't think it was out of line for her to threaten to spend her life exacting vengeance. I wouldn't want her to actually spend her life exacting vengeance. I'd actually like to see her get and take the chance to show Hera mercy; among other things, it would show that Wonder Woman can do what Hera (when confronting Hippolyta) couldn't do even though she said she wanted to.

[dshipp17]

No, I disagree. Gail Simone's run had very specific examples. Letting the GL beat on her after she had defeated him in battle to make the point that she didnt want to be his enemy. Giving the alien warrior Theana to option of surrendering even though it meant she also had the otion of killing Diana and dying with her [not unlikely if you look at Theana's character. Also the flashback of her treatment of Morrow which leads him to help her against Genocide.

Even further back that than, we see her give both Zeus and Hades the option of ending a conflict peacefully during the Rucka run.

Further back still, she chastises Cassandra for seeeking vengeance against Vanessa when she is turned in Silver Swan. Not just because its Nessie, but because that is not the Amazon way. And even earlier than that we see her during the space pirates saga preventing the torture of a helpless prisoner who would certainly not have returned the courtesy prior.

Those are just a few examples off the top of my head and by no means a comprehensive list.

I think you are right in saying that to an extent Wonder Woman is idealized because that is the sort of the character she was created to be - she represents an idea in the same as Captain America. That doesnt necessarily make her less human - her strength is not that she is untouched by baser impulses but she constantly struggles against them. And as I have indicated this idea has not arisen from nothing - I am basing my outlook on very specific and numerous examples.

I specifically requested that you evaluate her dynamics with Dr. Psycho post-crisis; and as with the dynamics with the Silver Swan, you pointed out a lot of dynamics with other female characters, which I said goes with her background, evidencing a bias towards females. The example with the Green Lantern in Gail's run is slightly different from what I'm pointing out; and I said this was your idealized version of the character, but it doesn't jive with the post-crisis Wonder Woman comics (I notice you tend to parse words like that when you're being disagreed with in a logical framework).

[americanwonder]

... I'd actually like to see her get and take the chance to show Hera mercy; among other things, it would show that Wonder Woman can do what Hera (when confronting Hippolyta) couldn't do even though she said she wanted to.

I approve of this idea/suggestion. :)

[Mr. Holmes]

See above. Diana has the same dark impulses as everyone else but she does not allow herself to succumb to them - for the most part. She has lapses: she can have a nasty temper, we have seen in the past, but in the moment, not as something that is planned.

It's only understandable if Diana gets feelings of vengeance after what Hera did. She hasn't really acted on them yet, since the story has only focused on Zola and the underworld right now, so I don't think it's something that is planned.

[Dr. Hurt]

See above. Diana has the same dark impulses as everyone else but she does not allow herself to succumb to them - for the most part. She has lapses: she can have a nasty temper, we have seen in the past, but in the moment, not as something that is planned.

When Hera has turned your mother into a statue and your people into snakes, i'd say it's a good time to have a lapse of judgement and be vengeful.

God i want to see Hera get owned so much!

[fanboiii]

When Hera has turned your mother into a statue and your people into snakes, i'd say it's a good time to have a lapse of judgement and be vengeful.

Now that I think about it, it's like One Piece with Boa Hancock. That made me wonder if there's mythic basis that associates women with snakes. There are actually some websites about it, but I don't know how valid the claims are.

[dreyga2000]

Now that I think about it, it's like One Piece with Boa Hancock. That made me wonder if there's mythic basis that associates women with snakes. There are actually some websites about it, but I don't know how valid the claims are.

The story of Adam and Eve????

[Reginleif]

Now that I think about it, it's like One Piece with Boa Hancock. That made me wonder if there's mythic basis that associates women with snakes. There are actually some websites about it, but I don't know how valid the claims are.

In Medeival Europe, the snake that tempted Eve was often depicted as a female.

[brettc1]

Actually, now that I think about that scene a bit more, I think freeing Zola and the unborn baby was the perfect reason for Wonder Woman to behave in such a manner; there was basically no other available option for her; since I've been in those situations a few times, I can clearly understand Diana's decision; although Wonder Woman could make another way for herself out of Hades, perhaps, Zola could not, at least not to the level of Wonder Woman.

Which makes you wonder then what the point of going was in the first place is you cant get Zola out. It wasnt Diana's idea to take the guns, so it seems unlikely theu were part of her plan. So what WAS the plan?

[brettc1]

When Hera has turned your mother into a statue and your people into snakes, i'd say it's a good time to have a lapse of judgement and be vengeful.

God i want to see Hera get owned so much!

And yet we have seen in the past that this is exactly what Wonder Woman would not do.

Even with her mother riddled with gunshot wounds behind her and full of anger herself, she does not take vengeance. Because - well, she's Wonder Woman.