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  1. #181
    Senior Member dreyga2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Which makes you wonder then what the point of going was in the first place is you cant get Zola out. It wasnt Diana's idea to take the guns, so it seems unlikely theu were part of her plan. So what WAS the plan?
    Force?? I'm pretty sure that's why she loaded up with weapons...

    Even with her mother riddled with gunshot wounds behind her and full of anger herself, she does not take vengeance. Because - well, she's Wonder Woman.
    ??? She beat the crap outta those Nazis and they had to make a run for it....
    All stories are imaginary, so you get to decide what's important and what isn't. Continuity is fluid.

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  2. #182
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    Yeah--she had just lost her whole family to Hera; I don't think it was out of line for her to threaten to spend her life exacting vengeance. I wouldn't want her to actually spend her life exacting vengeance. I'd actually like to see her get and take the chance to show Hera mercy; among other things, it would show that Wonder Woman can do what Hera (when confronting Hippolyta) couldn't do even though she said she wanted to.
    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    I approve of this idea/suggestion. :)

    Myself, Slvn and Amercianwonder all agree on the same thing at the same time...


    and the universe trembles!
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
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  3. #183
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreyga2000 View Post



    ??? She beat the crap outta those Nazis and they had to make a run for it....
    Negative. She had them at her mercy and she allowed them to withdraw.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
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  4. #184
    Senior Member dreyga2000's Avatar
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    Same thing... They got their butts kicked... Payback
    All stories are imaginary, so you get to decide what's important and what isn't. Continuity is fluid.

    -Jeff Brady

    Quoted for truth....

  5. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Myself, Slvn and Amercianwonder all agree on the same thing at the same time...


    and the universe trembles!
    Well, it is 2012, maybe the Mayans were right? ;)
    "... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
    - Longfellow

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Which makes you wonder then what the point of going was in the first place is you cant get Zola out. It wasnt Diana's idea to take the guns, so it seems unlikely theu were part of her plan. So what WAS the plan?
    She went to take Zola out of a terrifying mess, which Zola mistakenly got herself into; Wonder Woman knew Zola was innocent in the matter in that she lacked adequate understanding of her plight. Diana could offer Zola the better chance of being freed, but at a price to herself, apparently; basically, like getting someone out of a jam, like possibly facing being beaten down. Diana had some degree of empathy for the fact that Zola may not have wanted to be a prisoner in Hades.

    Also, God could have used Diana to free Zola to offer yet another chance to ultimately avoid Hades being her final destination in the afterlife, presenting the Heaven where Jesus resides as the alternative; Diana does not have to be aware that God is using her for such a purpose, as Zola may be the prize in God's eyes, or even, perhaps both Diana and Zola.
    Last edited by dshipp17; 04-19-2012 at 08:59 PM.

  7. #187
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreyga2000 View Post
    Same thing... They got their butts kicked... Payback
    No. Payback would have been throwing them to the megaladons or ripping their arms off. Diana fought to protect her homeland and her mother. Nothing more and nothing less.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
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  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshipp17 View Post
    She went to take Zola out of a terrifying mess, which Zola mistakenly got herself into; Wonder Woman knew Zola was innocent in the matter in that she lacked adequate understanding of her plight. Diana could offer Zola the better chance of being freed, but at a price to herself, apparently; basically, like getting someone out of a jam, like possibly facing being beaten down. Diana had some degree of empathy for the fact that Zola may not have wanted to be a prisoner in Hades.

    Also, God could have used Diana to free Zola to offer yet another chance to ultimately avoid Hades being her final destination in the afterlife, presenting the Heaven where Jesus resides as the alternative; Diana does not have to be aware that God is using her for such a purpose, as Zola may be the prize in God's eyes, or even, perhaps both Diana and Zola.
    Leaving aside theogical debates around the the issue, Diana still does not seem to have a very good plan. Had it not been for her having the guns of Eros the mission to save Zola would have failed, and having the guns was not Diana's idea.

    I'm just saying if you are going to to invade a gods home turf and steal something off him in the place where his power is strongest, having an actual plan beyond dress in armour and go in swinging might be considered wise.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  9. #189
    Senior Member dreyga2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    No. Payback would have been throwing them to the megaladons or ripping their arms off. Diana fought to protect her homeland and her mother. Nothing more and nothing less.
    Hmmm.... Not sure if agree payback doesn't necessarily equal murder it just means getting even... I guess we have two different definitions...

    But now I fail to see how this is different from the Hera thing... I pretty sure Wondie wasn't making a death threat when she said she make Hera regret her actions... Especially given that she's immortal...
    All stories are imaginary, so you get to decide what's important and what isn't. Continuity is fluid.

    -Jeff Brady

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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Leaving aside theogical debates around the the issue, Diana still does not seem to have a very good plan. Had it not been for her having the guns of Eros the mission to save Zola would have failed, and having the guns was not Diana's idea.

    I'm just saying if you are going to to invade a gods home turf and steal something off him in the place where his power is strongest, having an actual plan beyond dress in armour and go in swinging might be considered wise.
    Actually, you're not leaving the theological debate aside when you use the term "a gods home turf", as that's very different from my perspective (God (as a Holy Trinity), angels, and demons, where the afterlife offers two destinations for souls rather than just one). But, to your point, I'm not sure Diana could exactly make up a decent plan; Diana just has to act on her impulses to free Zola, which she did to the best of her abilities under the given circumstances; her goal was to free Zola from Hades, which she accomplished, rather it was elegant or clumsy.
    Last edited by dshipp17; 04-19-2012 at 09:50 PM.

  11. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    ... Had it not been for her having the guns of Eros the mission to save Zola would have failed, ...
    We don't know that. It's possible she could/would have found another way. Just because the pistol plan worked, doesn't mean it's the only way.

    Plan? Pshah. Punch something. That's the plan.
    Last edited by americanwonder; 04-19-2012 at 09:54 PM.
    "... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
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  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by dshipp17 View Post
    Actually, you're not leaving the theological debate aside when you use the term "a gods home turf", as that's very different from my perspective (God (as a Holy Trinity), angels, and demons, where the afterlife offers two destinations for souls rather than just one). But, to your point, I'm not sure Diana could exactly make up a decent plan; Diana just has to act on her impulses to free Zola, which she did to the best of her abilities under the given circumstances; her goal was to free Zola from Hades, which she accomplished, rather it was elegant or clumsy.
    Within the perspective of the narrative its not a theological debate. And the idea that Diana cant concoct a plan and just has obey whatever impulse occus to her without any relfection is not one I find appealing.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    We don't know that. It's possible she could/would have found another way. Just because the pistol plan worked, doesn't mean it's the only way.

    Plan? Pshah. Punch something. That's the plan.
    Ha. Just colour her green and be done with it.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreyga2000 View Post
    Hmmm.... Not sure if agree payback doesn't necessarily equal murder it just means getting even... I guess we have two different definitions...
    Payback, as I understand it, is that you make someone suffer for what they have done for you. They hurt you, you hurt them back. It's revenge, plain and simple.

    Diana's actions are not payback, from where I sit, because while she is initially furious she does not act to make the soldiers suffer for the sake of them suffering. She beats them in battle but its not to make her feel better, its to protect her mother. None of the soldiers suffer the same kind of grievous injury Hippolyta does. When Diana realises she is on the verge of acting our of vengeance, hurting the enemy to express her own pain, we see her thinking... This. THIS. Does my Mother no honor.

    Ah DAMMIT. I had forgotten how much I loved how Gail wrote Diana.

    But now I fail to see how this is different from the Hera thing... I pretty sure Wondie wasn't making a death threat when she said she make Hera regret her actions... Especially given that she's immortal...
    No, I dont think she meant that either, but she did mean it to make Hera suffer.

    Same thing happened in the very first ep of Hercules The Legendary Journeys. Hera kills his family and he goes on a quest to destroy all her temples, until he is made to realise that doing that would stop him from actually helping people. And while nobody would blame Diana for not forgiving Hera, planning to continue their blood feud until the end of time doesn't sit well with me in terms of WW's character. Thor? Yeah, I can see that. Wonder Woman? Not so much.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  15. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Ha. Just colour her green and be done with it.
    Green? No. It's all about the love!



    "... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
    - Longfellow

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