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  1. #151
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken1989 View Post
    for all the people who actually enjoy this run and for the rage of the haters, a new interview of Azzarrello on WW from Newsrama

    http://www.newsarama.com/comics/bria...der-woman.html

    Can't wait

    I found this part of the interview curious:

    "Nrama: Is the ending the end of your run?

    Azzarello: Probably, yeah.

    Nrama: Do you know how long you're on the book?"

  2. #152
    Senior Member dreyga2000's Avatar
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    Does really count if the God of Love has you fall in love... She was literally struck by cupid's arrow in manner of speaking... It's kinda of his job he is a force of nature.... If not then couldn't we assume that the guy for the club committed "R" word..
    All stories are imaginary, so you get to decide what's important and what isn't. Continuity is fluid.

    -Jeff Brady

    Quoted for truth....

  3. #153
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imraith Nimphais View Post
    Oh. My. Goddess!!!

    I loveloveLOVED this issue.

    Hades gets his "queen" after all. LOL
    As, with Hippolyta gathering moss on Paradise Island, Diana is now technically Queen of the Amazons.

    Currently she's Queen of the Snakes, actually!

  4. #154
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Well here is a thought.

    If she were to do anything with Hades, even as much as getting naked, while under the influence of the love bullets...in other words she were being magically coerced...

    Oh yeah, if that happens you are gonna here the "R" word from folks all over the world wide web.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reginleif View Post
    'R' word? retarded? thats not a nice word
    Heh - no, you know the one I mean. It seems to pop up a lot in WW discussions recently.

    Starts with R, rhymes with tape...
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
    One, because Azzarello is basing this on mythology.
    "Basing this on mythology" means that she has to go from being a champion of life to being a champion of death? That doesn't follow at all. Hercules doesn't pay that kind of price to return from the underworld. Neither does Odysseus, Aeneas, or even Orpheus. (Orpheus loses his beloved, but he had already lost her anyway; that's why he went to Hades in the first place.) Persephone is a different case because she goes to hell as a captured child, not as a questing hero like Hercules, Odysseus, Aeneas, Orpheus, or Wonder Woman.


    Two, because I do not think it's unreasonable at this point to assume that Azzarello intends to pervert almost every aspect of her original origin and character, and to destroy what he cannot pervert. He's already turned the Amazons into barbarian sex pirates. Turning "Wonder Woman" into a character incapable of love and a sex-based killing machine strikes me as a logical next step
    Sorry, but that's another non-sequitar. Azzarello has said and shown so far that he is interested in having Wonder Woman be a hero, and a good person, in a horrific world. Showing that the Amazons did shameful things is consistent with that; they're part of the hero's horrific world. We've known since issue 2 that these Amazons were being portrayed in at least a somewhat more questionable way. But corrupting Wonder Woman, or turning her from a champion of life who is willing to sacrifice herself to protect "brief lives," would be inconsistent with Azzarello's and Chiang's stated and demonstrated intention to have Wonder Woman be a hero, a good person, and a protector.

    You seem to think that Azzarello is going to write Wonder Woman as if she were a character out of his 100 Bullets--even though he hasn't done that yet. But here's what he said when asked how Wonder Woman differs from other female characters he has written:

    "She has a much more identifiable moral code, �cause a lot of the women I�ve written have been�sure they�re strong, but they�ve also been morally compromised in some way....Wonder Woman�s not tortured. I think Wonder Woman�s very strong and very confident in who she is, a sort of calmness and a sense of humor that I think has been lacking from that character for a while." ( http://www.avclub.com/articles/brian-azzarello,64974/ )

  6. #156
    Junior Member shyguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
    ... this may turn out to be a fun ride yet, even if it isn't Wonder Woman.
    "Fun ride, even if it isn't Wonder Woman" is basically how I characterize this entire run. It's written very well, decently-paced (which is something that sets it aside from Greg Rucka's glacial tenure), imaginative and exceedingly well drawn. What it has to do with Wonder Woman, I have no clue. This new protagonist reminds me much more of an amped-up Buffy in an ugly swimsuit, but so far her adventures are very engaging.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    He's still kind of an ass, though. Just a calculating one. Or maybe it's just me.
    But if I had to choose a "less asshole", I would probably pick Hermes (who's helped team WW, although he might be a traitor), Eros (appart from that incident with the gay guy, seems like a nice fella to me), or Hephaesteus (saver of babies for millenias). Hades is still a bad guy in my book.
    I just mean in Greek mythology in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by shyguy View Post
    "Fun ride, even if it isn't Wonder Woman" is basically how I characterize this entire run. It's written very well, decently-paced (which is something that sets it aside from Greg Rucka's glacial tenure), imaginative and exceedingly well drawn. What it has to do with Wonder Woman, I have no clue. This new protagonist reminds me much more of an amped-up Buffy in an ugly swimsuit, but so far her adventures are very engaging.
    The character is very much Wonder Woman. Sure, Azzarello has completely shaken up the surrounding mythology, but the core character is the same. Maybe you don't recognize Wonder Woman when she's not written as sharper than ever.
    Last edited by Mr. Holmes; 04-19-2012 at 03:36 PM.

  8. #158
    Junior Member shyguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    The character is very much Wonder Woman.
    Nope. She's an effective urban supernatural fantasy-type character, in the vein of Buffy and Hellboy, but Wonder Woman is a character with extremely specific traits which aren't present here. Snide comments aside.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by shyguy View Post
    Nope. She's an effective urban supernatural fantasy-type character, in the vein of Buffy and Hellboy,
    1. I hope you realize Buffy was largely influenced by Wonder Woman.

    2. Characters can be in different genre settings. If you put Batman against vampires, he's still Batman, not just "an effective urban supernatural fantasy-type character, in the vein of" Van Helsing.

    but Wonder Woman is a character with extremely specific traits which aren't present here.
    Please elaborate these extremely specific traits which aren't present here. Don't make broad generalizations that don't mean anything.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Heh - no, you know the one I mean. It seems to pop up a lot in WW discussions recently.

    Starts with R, rhymes with tape...
    oh, I get it

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Olivera View Post
    I found this part of the interview curious:

    "Nrama: Is the ending the end of your run?

    Azzarello: Probably, yeah.

    Nrama: Do you know how long you're on the book?"
    I think that just means the ending of the "long story" he has in mind,with a conclusion that he has already thought up, will be the end of his run. He just doesn't know yet how long he'll take in getting there, though it will be "awhile." One arc apparently ends with 12 (though the solicits say 11) but the long story will continue; he says it's not even half done yet, so that would take us though at least 17 (or, if he's counting issues that have been scripted but not published at least 23--because Chiang has said he's already working on 11).

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_Olivera View Post
    Currently she's Queen of the Snakes, actually!
    Well, nothing's perfect; I'm sure Hades and/or Hephaestus will take it rather than leave it; time to enjoy. To make this possibility work, either Hades will change forms, do it through others of the underworld, or this will be a job for Hephaestus (this possibility I hope for the most).
    Last edited by dshipp17; 04-19-2012 at 04:11 PM.

  13. #163
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    1. I hope you realize Buffy was largely influenced by Wonder Woman.

    2. Characters can be in different genre settings. If you put Batman against vampires, he's still Batman, not just "an effective urban supernatural fantasy-type character, in the vein of" Van Helsing.



    Please elaborate these extremely specific traits which aren't present here. Don't make broad generalizations that don't mean anything.

    A fair question.

    We can assume that heroic is going to be in there. So while going after Zola in Hades is heroic, is not specific to Wonder Woman. Any hero might do that from Green Lantern to Thor to She Hulk.

    I would say Wonder Woman's key feature is her compassion. She always feels it, even for her enemies. She believes in people being redeemed. Also, her love for peace. As the greatest warrior of the DCU she is devoted to the idea that peace is preferable to war. Where Batman's quest is to punish criminals and protect the innocent, Wonder Woman's is to help others find a way to live without hate. That was the founding concept of the Amazons from 1941 - that love is stronger than hate.

    I see some elements of that in the book for sure. Her trying to free the men last issues struck the right chord with me.

    On the other hand there are discrepencies. Her seemingly vengeful attitude towards Hera, declaring that she will find a way to punish her as long as she lives, seems at odds with WW's core. I think from past reading Diana would spend more time looking for a way to restore her mother and reconcile with Hera than to make her suffer for her misdeeds. She would never stop defending Zola, but neither would she extend the conflict one second longer than was necessary.
    Last edited by brettc1; 04-19-2012 at 04:12 PM.
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    As to adversity - they have been in two dire situations [both with the Centaurs].
    They were in a dire situation continuously since issue 1. Zola has lost the only home she ever had and is pregnant by the king of the gods. Diana, even by issue 6, had lost her whole family--which is to say, her whole people--and her understanding of her parentage. And they were there for each other.

    not enough to have gone beyond friendship.
    I'm not really sure what you mean by "beyond friendship." I think they they love each other as friends, and as surrogate family. Eros, when he says the price of blinding Hera was "the life of someone you love," may have seem to be describing something beyond that, but he probably see erotic love everywhere he looks. From what Wonder Woman says in 8, she has gone to hell to save Zola because she values human lives in their brevity; she probably would have done the same for anyone udner her protection.

    Anyway, even if you think it was unrealistically fast, we really do see their friendship developing on-panel form issue to issue, from friendly teasing in 1 and 2 to an intimate and important conversation in 4 to "you're part of my family now" in five. It seems to me that you have to ignore or miss a lot to be surprised that they share a loving friendship by 7.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    A fair question.

    We can assume that heroic is going to be in there. So while going after Zola in Hades is heroic, is not specific to Wonder Woman. Any hero might do that from Green Lantern to Thor to She Hulk.

    I would say Wonder Woman's key feature is her compassion. She always feels it, even for her enemies. She believes in people being redeemed. Also, her love for peace. As the greatest warrior of the DCU she is devoted to the idea that peace is preferable to war. Where Batman's quest is to punish criminals and protect the innocent, Wonder Woman's is to help others find a way to live without hate. That was the founding concept of the Amazons from 1941 - that love is stronger than hate.

    I see some elements of that in the book for sure. Her trying to free the men last issues struck the right chord with me.

    On the other hand there are discrepencies. Her seemingly vengeful attitude towards Hera, declaring that she will find a way to punish her as long as she lives, seems at odds with WW's core. I think from past reading Diana would spend more time looking for a way to restore her mother and reconcile with Hera than to make her suffer for her misdeeds. She would never stop defending Zola, but neither would she extend the conflict one second longer than was necessary.
    I don't think anything is at odds with the Wonder Woman character in this run (she's a little different but nothing rises to the level of her being at odds with herself); what you're stating is an idealized version of your own creation which never specifically existed, particularly post-crisis; again, look back over her exchanges with Dr. Psycho post-crisis and give specifics of where this idea comes from, as it relates to the character; it might be somewhat true in her dynamics with the Silver Swan, a female, but that would clearly show a bias, but one consist with her background; I'm sensing that you're claiming that she was virtuous, as opposed to good, but you can be clearer.
    Last edited by dshipp17; 04-19-2012 at 04:29 PM.

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