Are the Avengers now bigger than the X-Men in pop culture?

[esc0]

Doom has a humongous drawback as a movie villain: he can't do facial expressions.

yea but you can see Doom's eyes which can be very expressive with the right actor and a great actor can also make Doom's personalty shine.

[RDMacQ]

Doom has a humongous drawback as a movie villain: he can't do facial expressions.

Seemed to work out OK for Darth Vader.

[FriendRoss]

a lot of talking with hands and body expression

[x-men_always_win]

Nah. DC's Justice League is the only thing that can fit this template. You can have your solo movies then one big movie...in a few years. X_men work better together than solo. Nobody wants to see a NightCrawler movie.



They need to make this happen. It would make everyone happy.

Do you even read?

[XPac]

The Fantastic Four needs a Joel Schumaker-Batman level comeback though. Maybe what they should with the Fox FF movies do is what Fox did with the first slapdash Roger Corman FF. Buy it and then retire so it doesn't see the light of day for a long time.

It is kind of ironic that Doom is the veritable workhorse in the comics with many writers sometimes colliding stories with each other when they use it. Yet Thanos seldom gets used. He just lacks the versatility.

I actually think not over-using Thanos is a good thing.

He's really almost a special event villain... when he shows up, it's not just a story. It's an event.

Doom is overused to the point where it often doesn't necessarily feel as special as it should. Don't get me wrong, Doom still commands more attention than almost any other villain... but a year and a half or so ago he was being used in almost half a dozen stories or events at once.

By keeping Thanos appearances somewhat rare, and often restricted to BIG events and stories, I think it actually makes him more of an attraction. And it prevents him from being watered down.

[carabas]

yea but you can see Doom's eyes which can be very expressive with the right actor and a great actor can also make Doom's personalty shine.

Not that big a deal unles they're hyper-emotive CGI eyes instead of real ones.

[StoneGold]

Vader suffered from the same drawback, but he has James Earl Jones and massively better character design.

Then the movie Doom, ok, but otherwise...


You can get away with a faceless villain, as long as you have a hero whose face is exposed.

[RDMacQ]

I actually think not over-using Thanos is a good thing.

He's really almost a special event villain... when he shows up, it's not just a story. It's an event.

Doom is overused to the point where it often doesn't necessarily feel as special as it should. Don't get me wrong, Doom still commands more attention than almost any other villain... but a year and a half or so ago he was being used in almost half a dozen stories or events at once.

By keeping Thanos appearances somewhat rare, and often restricted to BIG events and stories, I think it actually makes him more of an attraction. And it prevents him from being watered down.

However, I also think preserving Thanos until something "big" happens also hurt the character's prominence. Holding off on the character until the "right" moment comes along seems like a good idea on paper, but if no one uses him because the story isn't "big" enough then his effectiveness as a villain kind of goes downhill.

I also think that Starlin's influence kind of spoiled some of the fun with the character. I remember that guys like Mark Waid and Dan Jurgens used him in a couple of stories featuring Ka-Zar and Thor, respectively. Was it weird seeing Ka-Zar fight against Thanos? Yeah, but that was kind of the fun. And Dan used him in a very epic story with Thor that really challenged the character and pushed Thor to his limit.

But what did Starlin do the next time he got to write Thanos? Basically declare that those weren't the "real" Thanos, they were just clones and the victories didn't "count." I don't know, but that kind of seems like something that would spoil the character's appeal. That someone can't use him as an outright villain for fear of someone coming along later and saying those stories don't really "count."

I'd much rather see Thanos be used more than just saved for "big" events. It's the sort of thing that kind of spoiled Norman Osborn. If he was always used just to screw up Spider-Man's life, he becomes something of a one trick pony and used scarcely because of this, for fear of his appeal as a villain would degrade. But not using him would cause his villainous nature to degrade as well, since other villains would step in to be more of a threat.

I guess I'm saying it's better to use them than lose them.

[XPac]

However, I also think preserving Thanos until something "big" happens also hurt the character's prominence. Holding off on the character until the "right" moment comes along seems like a good idea on paper, but if no one uses him because the story isn't "big" enough then his effectiveness as a villain kind of goes downhill.

I also think that Starlin's influence kind of spoiled some of the fun with the character. I remember that guys like Mark Waid and Dan Jurgens used him in a couple of stories featuring Ka-Zar and Thor, respectively. Was it weird seeing Ka-Zar fight against Thanos? Yeah, but that was kind of the fun. And Dan used him in a very epic story with Thor that really challenged the character and pushed Thor to his limit.

But what did Starlin do the next time he got to write Thanos? Basically declare that those weren't the "real" Thanos, they were just clones and the victories didn't "count." I don't know, but that kind of seems like something that would spoil the character's appeal. That someone can't use him as an outright villain for fear of someone coming along later and saying those stories don't really "count."

I'd much rather see Thanos be used more than just saved for "big" events. It's the sort of thing that kind of spoiled Norman Osborn. If he was always used just to screw up Spider-Man's life, he becomes something of a one trick pony and used scarcely because of this, for fear of his appeal as a villain would degrade. But not using him would cause his villainous nature to degrade as well, since other villains would step in to be more of a threat.

I guess I'm saying it's better to use them than lose them.

In all fairness I think other writers were sort of ignoring the direction the Thanos character was moving in, and he had to try and explain why the same character was going in different directions.

This is an example of a writer sort of protecting the character... and the same thing has occured with Doom on a few occasions as well. It's a way to explain the poor or out of character showings, and keep the character from being watered down. Ideally this sort of thing shouldn't be necessary and editors would sort of keep writers on the same page... but that just doesn't happen as often as it should.

[StoneGold]

However, I also think preserving Thanos until something "big" happens also hurt the character's prominence. Holding off on the character until the "right" moment comes along seems like a good idea on paper, but if no one uses him because the story isn't "big" enough then his effectiveness as a villain kind of goes downhill.

Eh, just use him like Blofeld until the trigger is pulled. He's the shadowy guy in the background who is the one actually making life miserable for our heroes, even if you never get more than a glance of him.

[RDMacQ]

In all fairness I think other writers were sort of ignoring the direction the Thanos character was moving in, and he had to try and explain why the same character was going in different directions.

This is an example of a writer sort of protecting the character... and the same thing has occured with Doom on a few occasions as well. It's a way to explain the poor or out of character showings, and keep the character from being watered down. Ideally this sort of thing shouldn't be necessary and editors would sort of keep writers on the same page... but that just doesn't happen as often as it should.

But the thing of it was, they weren't exactly bad stories. I mean, Mark Waid? Dan Jurgens? These guys aren't exactly poor storytellers. They used the character because they liked the character and wanted him to have a presence he didn't have in a while. They wanted him to be the heavy again, to be someone to be feared. I don't think that's a bad addition to his character arc. He wasn't exactly showing up to steal the Cosmic Cube in the Thanos Copter. He was trying to destroy the Universe to gain the favor of Lady Death. That's kind of a defining trait of the character.

I'd rather see more creators use Thanos, than have him turned into another version of Steve Englehart's Mantis. Englehart got to tell his Mantis story, but in the end, did anyone care?

[RDMacQ]

Eh, just use him like Blofeld until the trigger is pulled. He's the shadowy guy in the background who is the one actually making life miserable for our heroes, even if you never get more than a glance of him.

That'd still be more preferable than keeping him on the docks for years because someone decided his story was "done" and that no stories but his "counted."

[Brandon McKinnis]

Seemed to work out OK for Darth Vader.

LOL. I don't drink soda, so instead of a Coke you owe me a V8.

[Aaric Rivad]

I'd rather see more creators use Thanos, than have him turned into another version of Steve Englehart's Mantis. Englehart got to tell his Mantis story, but in the end, did anyone care?

Agreed. I get the feeling that Starlin just couldn't cope with the idea that a "mere" superhero could outwit or overcome the overwhelming awesomeness of his pet creation. As much as I loved his early work with Thanos, especially in Warlock, eventually it become more of the same ol' same ol'. After a while, I prayed that someone... ANYONE... might come along and do something different with the character.

I'm not sure I really want Bendis to be the one doing it, though.

[Iron Maiden]

Agreed. I get the feeling that Starlin just couldn't cope with the idea that a "mere" superhero could outwit or overcome the overwhelming awesomeness of his pet creation. As much as I loved his early work with Thanos, especially in Warlock, eventually it become more of the same ol' same ol'. After a while, I prayed that someone... ANYONE... might come along and do something different with the character.

I'm not sure I really want Bendis to be the one doing it, though.

Maybe it will be Doctor Strange in disguise in Avengers Assemble