Dead is Dead rule broken? Awhile back

**Number_5** · 04-17-2012, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Codah

It's worth nothing that the "dead is dead" rule is a fairly new thing. The Ultimate Universe wasn't even intended to be a "Universe" from the beginning, so some rules were applied along the way.

Yeah, is there anyone who can link us to the first time the rule was introduced? When was this rule put in place? I only ask because people are bringing in old counter-examples that may have occurred before the rule was made, and I honestly don't know when the rule was made.

**John Zaleski** · 04-17-2012, 07:49 AM

Norman. broke this

**Havok C.** · 04-17-2012, 08:16 AM

even though we have had some "dead is dead" rules broken (ghost rider, thor, loki, and valkyrie don't count) we all have to admit it's still nothing compared to the amount of times and how many characters died in the 616 verse. Literally about every single major and side character in Marvel has died at least once and then come back. I wonder if people get an award for dying and coming back 20+ times?

**John Zaleski** · 04-17-2012, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Havok C.

even though we have had some "dead is dead" rules broken (ghost rider, thor, loki, and valkyrie don't count) we all have to admit it's still nothing compared to the amount of times and how many characters died in the 616 verse. Literally about every single major and side character in Marvel has died at least once and then come back. I wonder if people get an award for dying and coming back 20+ times?

Agreed with this statement.

Also have to agree the dead is dead rule definitely does not apply to either universe

**RockyBanks** · 04-17-2012, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Havok C.

even though we have had some "dead is dead" rules broken (ghost rider, thor, loki, and valkyrie don't count) we all have to admit it's still nothing compared to the amount of times and how many characters died in the 616 verse. Literally about every single major and side character in Marvel has died at least once and then come back. I wonder if people get an award for dying and coming back 20+ times?

I think that award has to go to either Thor (who, by my count, has died eleventy times) or Jean Grey (whose entire purpose for existing is to die and be resurrected 37284 times).

**Xistel** · 04-17-2012, 10:06 AM

I don't mind breaking the rule as long as it furthers the quality of the book / universe. But it's not something to do lightly

**Balfro** · 04-17-2012, 10:11 AM

The best way to think of "Dead Means Dead" in the UU is that it's meaning directly relates to the "realness" of the universe itself. If it were the real world then all deaths would be 100% final, but since it's a world where aliens and supernatural phenomena exist then death is slightly more lenient. I think it's at a comfortable place in between 616 and real life; Most deaths have meaning and are permanent and, for the most part, the ones who come back have a believable explanation.

**RockyBanks** · 04-17-2012, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Balfro

The best way to think of "Dead Means Dead" in the UU is that it's meaning directly relates to the "realness" of the universe itself. If it were the real world then all deaths would be 100% final, but since it's a world where aliens and supernatural phenomena exist then death is slightly more lenient. I think it's at a comfortable place in between 616 and real life; Most deaths have meaning and are permanent and, for the most part, the ones who come back have a believable explanation.

Although I would prefer a harder "Dead Means Dead" stance, this is a pretty accurate description of the way it's been done so far.

**Kurolegacy** · 04-17-2012, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Xistel

I don't mind breaking the rule as long as it furthers the quality of the book / universe. But it's not something to do lightly

I agree here. I don't mind resurrections as long as its done tastefully and in the context of the universe. For example, while there aren't any plans to bring them back, I can see it as possible for Peter and Logan to return since Osborn's been shown to have come back from a bullet to the head in human form and Logan's been shown to be able to heal from taking a nuke (which would definitely reduce your cell count to 0).

As for what we've seen though, Wanda makes sense due to the nature of her powers and the fact that she seemed to be doing something back when she was shot. Madrox was definitely a case of it being broken since it was explained that only by going after the original would the copies be disappear. So unless Logan didn't kill Madrox prime (which in that situation wouldn't make sense) they broke the rule.

**SpeedofLife** · 04-17-2012, 01:23 PM

Green Goblin, Madrox, and Captain Britain and the rest of the EDI have all been resurrected since Ultimatum.

Dead never meant dead.

**robcastor729** · 04-17-2012, 01:29 PM

As long as they let the writer tell the right story. I'm good with who ever is coming back

**Codah** · 04-17-2012, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Number_5

Yeah, is there anyone who can link us to the first time the rule was introduced? When was this rule put in place? I only ask because people are bringing in old counter-examples that may have occurred before the rule was made, and I honestly don't know when the rule was made.

I can't find a link but I feel like it was a little bit before Ultimatum because they wanted people to react to all those deaths.

**RedGhost25** · 04-17-2012, 08:16 PM

Mystique... Though she was dead too. I think it's all Jean Grey (Grant) using everybody. Tian, Fury, the X-men, Ultimate X. Maybe even Richards. A grand scheme.

**wyokid** · 04-17-2012, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by RedGhost25

Mystique... Though she was dead too. I think it's all Jean Grey (Grant) using everybody. Tian, Fury, the X-men, Ultimate X. Maybe even Richards. A grand scheme.

When the heck did Mystique die???