DWF Speculations: What is Captain America's Big Decision?

[sage6paths]

Stop being trolled by Robbie. If that's what he thinks and you think that makes him an idiot, just ignore the topic. This thread is about Cap and his decision.
Also, I need to read that Jason Aaron mini again, I didn't like it my first time through but maybe it deserves a second chance.

Yah your right I'm done. To each his own. But yah definitely read that mini again I read it a second time around and enjoyed it more because I had a different mindset of Cap when this mini came out.

[Robbie_Jee]

Stop being trolled by Robbie. If that's what he thinks and you think that makes him an idiot, just ignore the topic. This thread is about Cap and his decision.
Also, I need to read that Jason Aaron mini again, I didn't like it my first time through but maybe it deserves a second chance.

Excuse me but I think I have actually done pretty darn well to keep on topic with Cap, whilst also answering posters questions, fully and explanatory. Troll? I think I've done well to avoid that definition.

I was saying that post, I had typed something up and edited it out because it was a hot button and people would be on me like blood in the water

I wouldn't know because I didn't read it. What are you trying to say here? Forgive me for not understanding your rather vague terminologies.

Just because I have no political stance doesn't mean that parties can't be blamed.

Wyo. I am not here to discuss politics. I did not ask for your political opinion. But you say something like 'America have made mistakes' and then it takes ages for me to get you to explain what you mean. You seem to be being vague on purpous too and as I ask questions like 'What do you mean by that?' I'm suddenly titled as a troll. (Such descriminative titles only lead to anti-social behaviour, which is uncalled for on this forum). I don't care whether you side with this political party or that political party or whether you side with a political party that different than everyone else. I just don't think you're being very explanitory in your posts and you can't blame me for being confused by your vagueness.

Like in the comic, Nixon.

What about Obama and Bush and every other politican that's gotten into cabinet. Actually wait. That'll only derail the thread even further. Also, i seriously don't think they're actions have been 'mistakes'. You don't just accidently invade a country.

[Robbie_Jee]

I'm not saying it was right, but it does show that he is the better man.

Actually. Killing a pig doesn't prove anything. Proof would mean that he would have provided evidence.

[Trevor M.]

Whether or not to take back his sentiment about the French.

[G@ry]

I've never heard such an irrational excuse in my life. Whatever did the pig do to deserve getting killed. I'd understand if cap needed to eat him but otherwise it's just murder.

I agree that's retarded. Who wrote that crap?

[Plawsky]

Millar's Cap was ignorant, he saw America as perfect. To him anything America did was godlike. America could never make a mistake. In Aaron's miniseries he's no longer the blind ignorant soldier, he knows that America makes mistakes and he accepts that.

I'd be interested to see any Ultimate Cap moments that paint him as a human than Ultimates #3-4. The only other character focus I can think of for Steve was a single panel in Ultimate Vision #0, also by Millar, and a bit in Loeb's Annual. Since then, there hasn't really been any focus on Cap out of uniform.

The only time I can actually think of Millar's Cap having to defend America was while he was being taken on by a dozen superhumans at once. He only resorted to killing Abdul, and I've pointed this out to you several times, because he really wasn't given a choice. I don't disagree that a longer pro-America monologue would have been nice, but the "that's not how we do things" line clearly stated his stance, basically boiling down to "the way you see us is not how we really are."

The reason why Cap killed the pig was to show Frank that he could have killed him, but he didn't. Cap showed Frank that he didn't break him and that he was the better man.

The fact that he didn't kill Frank Simpson is literally the same thing as when he beat the crap out of Bruce Banner and Hank Pym in Ultimates #5 and #10, respectively. So why is it so much different when he does it the third time?

Regarding a change in character in Aaron's series, I don't see any. What is different about his Cap in issue #1 versus the one we see at the end of issue #4? A look at Cap in the miniseries:

-In issue #1 he insults the British, and the French in #2, killing enemy soldiers the entire time.

I'd say we can agree that Aaron is picking Cap up where Millar left him. This is very much in character with how he was written in Millar's Ultimates.

-In issue #4, Cap says the following: "You think I'd never heard of Richard Nixon before? ... I know all those stories. And a hundred more just like them that are even worse."

Here, Cap makes it clear that he already knew all this. Simpson's crazy rants did not teach him any new information.

So what exactly happened during his time with Simpson that changed him at all? The conclusion of their struggle essentially boils down to "You're crazy, I was right all along." Cap learned nothing from this. Granted, I don't think there was anything for him to learn, as Frank was a nutjob, and I think that's one of the flaws of this story. Plus, like I mentioned above, Cap kicks Frank's ass, continuing long after he's won, and actually leaves him in worse shape than the last two times he did this.

If anything at all, the change came in the final pages, with Hawkeye giving Steve a reason to question his faith, only to use that as an opportunity to evangelize to Frank. But that has nothing to do with Steve's patriotism, but instead his religion. And even then, it's not so much a change, just a reaffirmation of the faith we saw from Cap under Millar.

Long story short:

If Cap was shown in the Millar characterizations in the first two issues and his feelings on America came before the series, where is the change?

[Drz]

I'd be interested to see any Ultimate Cap moments that paint him as a human than Ultimates #3-4. The only other character focus I can think of for Steve was a single panel in Ultimate Vision #0, also by Millar, and a bit in Loeb's Annual. Since then, there hasn't really been any focus on Cap out of uniform.

Remember in Avengers we learn bits and pieces more about Captain America, such as:
- His love for Penny Singleton movies
- Going to Afganistan to serve Thanks Giving Turkeys to his troops.
- He barely needs sleep at all.

Not really focus like you said, but more awesome things to know about Millar's Captain America.

[Havok C.]

Something that Cap has never done before?.....get fat and retire?

[Drz]

Nah it's something a superhero has never done. Get fat and retired? Wolverine's done it.

[Time_to_Zap]

I'd love to see a legit fat superhero. All these characters are in perfect shape, and for the ones who work out it makes sense, but for many it's just like- "you have powers! Now you're constantly fit!" even if it's something completely unrelated, like telepathy.

[Z-verse]

I think that the asgardians will get resurrected, but not brought back to life. I think Thor's son will rise to be the new Thor. I also theorize that 616 cap and 1610 cap will swap universes.

[Codah]

I think that the asgardians will get resurrected, but not brought back to life. I think Thor's son will rise to be the new Thor. I also theorize that 616 cap and 1610 cap will swap universes.

What?
10char

[Stars 'N Stripes]

.....kill the evil president on national TV and subsequently replace him?

[Robbie_Jee]

I agree that's retarded.

Exactly. Human Agenda does not take presedence over good logical thinking. It's human agenda that leads to selfish acts like that. How are we ever going to come together as a human race if we do things like kill animals just to prove a point.

Who wrote that crap?

Depending on what you're asking, either sage6paths or Jason Aaron.

[wyokid]

So apparently the event is actually called "Divided We Fall, United We Stand"

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=38290