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  1. #31
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    Nearing the end does not mean it will actually end even if such event does make sense to be ending.

  2. #32
    Season 2 of Blue Estate CTpitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atren View Post
    Nearing the end does not mean it will actually end even if such event does make sense to be ending.
    so confused with this post
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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by plushbug View Post
    I am so hoping you're right about this.

    I do think there's at least some chance of it, for the odd and terrifically ironic reason (given that we're talking about one of the most ancient mythological characters around--going back to the original myths, Loki is implicitly older than Odin, and looking at him as a trickster/clown along the lines of Raven and Coyote, one could say Neolithically ancient!) that as he's evolved in this arena, he's morphed into a very modern character. He's become a character who works with his mind, whether we call him a magic-user or just clever and manipulative. He's been all along a character who relies more on brain than brawn, like most of us. With his reinvention as a child allowing us to step back mentally from 50 years' worth of his adult self also having been an all-round warped and nasty bit of work--whatever his community's doubts about him, we are as readers in a position to see that at this stage his intentions are good, and be more sympathetic than otherwise, to his situation. Whatever his potentials, right now he's no more evil than any other smart 12-year-old with more initiative than judgement, more confidence than justified in his own conclusions, and a dire need to learn that if he never risks fair-warning or reality checking his ideas with the people who matter in his life, those people are going to be damn well justified in being scared about his ability to generate chaos--we're in a position to regard him more tolerantly than *urgh* no, his elder self had just got way too far beyond tolerance, in his villainy. Add that this is a world in which we're mostly much less terrified of the sort of random-factors upheaval of things going wrong and the right order of things being overturned, that trickster/clowns are known for creating--a lot less terrified of change, in general! and we're able to find him a much more palatable character. Able to see his capacity for forcing change as useful and tending to make the world a less boring place, and his creativity and black-ops deviousness as valuable. As far as that goes, I could just say his "yin" style, as opposed to, say, Thor's straightforward-as-daylight "yang" heroics. It all adds up to a much more interesting and relatable package. So, while I'm as sure as anyone else that he's in for rough times ahead, I do hope his current and future writers will be able to resist doing anything so simple-minded with him as "just" having anything happen to him, sufficient to flip him back to villainy. I'd sooner see him grow up this time as a chaotic good hero than a lawful evil villain.
    True, you're right. Loki is now a modern character and it would be incredibly difficult for him to degrade back into the one-note villain he once was, especially given just how popular a character he is.

    Which is why I'm of the mind that if he does become a villain again, it will be because of a bad bet, or it will be with everyone else forgetting this period of time where he's a child, forgetting any good thing he ever did do while he remembers perfectly. I can think of no worse fate for a character than just having everyone forget what good you did do.

    But you bring up a very good point about why it is so many of the characters don't like Loki, and why even Thor distrusts him. We as readers know his intentions, we know he's just being a good brother. The characters don't. You also bring up a good point about how much Loki still has to learn. He's a typical teenage boy in that respect, in that he believes himself to be untouchable, that everything will and should work out. It's rather sad that this is what's probably going to bring his downfall more than anything else, since this youth and naivete was sorta what old Loki wanted in the first place.

  4. #34
    T.S.O.T.I. Hulk_Is's Avatar
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    I think I'll just sit this one out. Matt Fraction's Mighty Thor has been good to me and I've avoided JIM like the plague.
    Marvel : Moon Knight, Savage Hulk (6/25), Original Sin (5/7)

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  5. #35
    Season 2 of Blue Estate CTpitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk_Is View Post
    I think I'll just sit this one out. Matt Fraction's Mighty Thor has been good to me and I've avoided JIM like the plague.
    see now thats the opposite with me
    I wonder if it would still be alright to just read our respected title
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  6. #36
    T.S.O.T.I. Hulk_Is's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTpitch View Post
    see now thats the opposite with me
    I wonder if it would still be alright to just read our respected title
    Probably not. There might be some gaps missing that'll cause you to scratch your head. At least, I'm going into this event with that mentality, hence why I'm also avoiding the whole thing (for now).
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  7. #37
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    I'm so torn about this. On one hand Journey Into Mystery has been appalling without THOR in the book. It's almost sacrilege to have a Journey into Mystery title without Thor being prominently featured. On the other hand Matt Fraction's Thor has been utterly horrendous.

  8. #38
    Member / Bon Vivant Soundrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk_Is View Post
    Probably not. There might be some gaps missing that'll cause you to scratch your head. At least, I'm going into this event with that mentality, hence why I'm also avoiding the whole thing (for now).
    I disagree. I was easily able to follow the early issues of "Journey Into Mystery" without having to get within 10 feet of the main "Fear Itself" issues, and those early issues tied heavily into events from "Fear Itself." Gillen (and/or his editors) did a concise and adequate job of filling the reader in with what the reader needed to know about the events unfolding in "Fear Itself."

    If Gillen is indeed involved in writing both "Journey Into Mystery" and "Thor" during this crossover, I suspect he'll again fill-in the "Journey Into Mystery" readers on what's going on over in "Thor," and vice versa.

  9. #39
    Season 2 of Blue Estate CTpitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundrave View Post
    I disagree. I was easily able to follow the early issues of "Journey Into Mystery" without having to get within 10 feet of the main "Fear Itself" issues, and those early issues tied heavily into events from "Fear Itself." Gillen (and/or his editors) did a concise and adequate job of filling the reader in with what the reader needed to know about the events unfolding in "Fear Itself."

    If Gillen is indeed involved in writing both "Journey Into Mystery" and "Thor" during this crossover, I suspect he'll again fill-in the "Journey Into Mystery" readers on what's going on over in "Thor," and vice versa.
    hope they do it with the awesome openers they have
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  10. #40
    Member / Bon Vivant Soundrave's Avatar
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    Interestingly, here's what the Official Marvel Handbooks say about the origin of the Vanir . . .

    "Bor was the son of Búri, the first of the Asgardian race, who is said to have emerged from beneath the ice of the extradimensional realm of Niffleheim ages ago. According to legend, Búri was created when the primeval cow Audumbla (who may have been the Earth Mother Gaea in one of her many guises) licked his form from a block of ice. Eventually, Búri sired Bor and Njord. Although Búri served as the original Sky Father of the Norse gods, he eventually gave way as the dominant member of his race to Bor, while Njord founded the city of Vanaheim and sired the Vanir tribe of Norse gods."
    So the Aesir/Vanir split occurred a generation before Odin, and this "blood feud" may have its origins there.

    As someone who hasn't been reading Fraction's run on "Mighty Thor," I'm curious as to whether any of the Vanir have been making appearances there yet. IIRC, the main Vanir to be featured in Marvel Comics prior to the Asgard reboot were Njord, Frey, and Freya. I hear that Freya is a member of the "All-Mother" triumvirate that now rules Asgardia, but is she acknowledged as a member of the Vanir? The All-Mother seems to consist of Gaea (Jord), Freya, and Idunn -- who are grandmother, mother, and daughter, respectively (again, that may have been addressed already too, but I haven't been reading).

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundrave View Post
    Interestingly, here's what the Official Marvel Handbooks say about the origin of the Vanir . . .



    So the Aesir/Vanir split occurred a generation before Odin, and this "blood feud" may have its origins there.

    As someone who hasn't been reading Fraction's run on "Mighty Thor," I'm curious as to whether any of the Vanir have been making appearances there yet. IIRC, the main Vanir to be featured in Marvel Comics prior to the Asgard reboot were Njord, Frey, and Freya. I hear that Freya is a member of the "All-Mother" triumvirate that now rules Asgardia, but is she acknowledged as a member of the Vanir? The All-Mother seems to consist of Gaea (Jord), Freya, and Idunn -- who are grandmother, mother, and daughter, respectively (again, that may have been addressed already too, but I haven't been reading).
    As of right now, it goes like this: Crown/Queen-Freya. Mother-Gea. Maiden-Idunn.

    I believe that the Vanir have been mentioned, but only in passing by Fraction. I have no doubt that they could easily be brought in, especially given the strong female presence in both books. It's very much a "woman's" game right now in Thor.

    I'm interested in how Thor handles this change, actually. We've already see that the All-Mother believes more in negations, but isn't above mind-games and the like. And let's face it, women may be less violent than men, but that's only because we're very manipulative, or at least we try to be before we go to violence. The only reason there was that huge fight last issue was because Karnilla struck first. And then she was promptly beaten down, allowing the All-Mother to show her strength and that she's no light weight.

  12. #42
    Senior Member jphamlore's Avatar
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    My Occam's razor explanation for turning Loki back to the other side is what has already been explained in Gillen's JiM with the All-Mother blackmailing Loki about his role in releasing Surtur in the first place. This information will sooner or later come out, and if it is in the middle of a catastrophic battle with Surtur, the All-Mother may have no choice but to allow the new Nine Realms republic to vote to banish Loki for his crimes.

    One could argue this would be somewhat unfair and there should be some argument to spare Loki, but looking into history, one can find the example of the Athenian generals who were executed after the Battle of Arginusae, an incredible victory for Athens, for the crime of having failed to rescue parts of the fleet in an storm, one of the greatest disgraces in the annals of democratic government.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by jphamlore View Post
    My Occam's razor explanation for turning Loki back to the other side is what has already been explained in Gillen's JiM with the All-Mother blackmailing Loki about his role in releasing Surtur in the first place. This information will sooner or later come out, and if it is in the middle of a catastrophic battle with Surtur, the All-Mother may have no choice but to allow the new Nine Realms republic to vote to banish Loki for his crimes.

    One could argue this would be somewhat unfair and there should be some argument to spare Loki, but looking into history, one can find the example of the Athenian generals who were executed after the Battle of Arginusae, an incredible victory for Athens, for the crime of having failed to rescue parts of the fleet in an storm, one of the greatest disgraces in the annals of democratic government.
    Ouch, it could happen though. It's all set up for Surtur to come back, Mephisto has the letter about Loki freeing him already made, and what else could the All-Mother do? Send him to bed without supper again? Especially given his history, she would almost have to do something drastic to him just to please the other pantheons who may just be getting sick and tired of the House of Odin doing whatever it wants without any care to what others want. And since killing him is sorta out of the question, there are onl so many things they can do. Wow, FI and Odin's selfish actions may actually have some purpose in terms of a larger story, who knew?

    But where would Loki go? Would he have to go to Earth? Really, who would want him? As I type that, it just sounds so harsh, but it's the truth.

  14. #44
    Bored with Post Life Jason456701's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Ouch, it could happen though. It's all set up for Surtur to come back, Mephisto has the letter about Loki freeing him already made, and what else could the All-Mother do? Send him to bed without supper again? Especially given his history, she would almost have to do something drastic to him just to please the other pantheons who may just be getting sick and tired of the House of Odin doing whatever it wants without any care to what others want. And since killing him is sorta out of the question, there are onl so many things they can do. Wow, FI and Odin's selfish actions may actually have some purpose in terms of a larger story, who knew?

    But where would Loki go? Would he have to go to Earth? Really, who would want him? As I type that, it just sounds so harsh, but it's the truth.
    He could be sent to Avengers Academy or the Jean Grey School for Higher Learning they seem to specialize in helping kids who might turn evil later on.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Post Monster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    As of right now, it goes like this: Crown/Queen-Freya. Mother-Gea. Maiden-Idunn.
    You forgot the crone bit with Freya. It's a classic triple goddess maiden/matron/crone scenario. Like Morrigan. Which is why the bit about Celtic gods was so interesting.

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