Plans for Moon Knight?

[fmarvel]

Does anybody know if there are any plans for Moon Knight after Bendis' run? I mean, is MK going to be in any Avengers titles or anything else? I am a DC guy but MK is my fave Marvel character, so I keep up with my MK comics.

[sportsguy831]

Does anybody know if there are any plans for Moon Knight after Bendis' run? I mean, is MK going to be in any Avengers titles or anything else? I am a DC guy but MK is my fave Marvel character, so I keep up with my MK comics.

he's appearing in a couple issues of xmen legacy during avx and will probably be a reserve and tech guy in secret avengers

[Hamdinger]

Maybe he'll be the Avengers sacrificial death for AvX?

[Hulk_Is]

I just pray to Konshu that the next writer(s) absolutely ignore Bendis's junk.

I want a Moon Knight book more than anyone, but I'd rather have the character shelved indefinitely rather than to have the likes of Bendis taking a stab. And, unfortunately I feel like Bendis has left a stain upon the character that future and impressionable writers will touch back on. :/

[Hulk_Is]

Maybe he'll be the Avengers sacrificial death for AvX?

Maybe. And he can join the Sentry and they can swap crazy stories. Maybe they'll come back one day in a Superman/Batman type of series.

[CTpitch]

Maybe. And he can join the Sentry and they can swap crazy stories. Maybe they'll come back one day in a Superman/Batman type of series.

LMAO two Schizos on a team up title
my goodness the carnage the two will cause

[Hulk_Is]

LMAO two Schizos on a team up title
my goodness the carnage the two will cause

I don't even like the Sentry (although I think he could possibly work as a cosmic character), but for some reason I've a complete obsession over those two teaming up and reading the absolutely nutty things that would result. Potential. Potential. Potential.

[kelly_warrior_princess]

What MArvel needs to do to make Moon Knight a commercial success is something Marvel doesn't have the balls to do: Admit that MK is essentially Batman. I love MK because he used to be Marvels answer to Batman... I hated the actual Moonknight, because he was inconsistent, had no stated goal, had no expandable playground, had a dull supporting cast, a worse rogues gallery & generally had been written intot the ground by people making him insane.

heck, give me a quality creative team & i promise i can make Moonknight one of Marvels top 10 by years end... Its not hard.

All it would take would be a few small things to be successful: For starters a new city, one that is completely ficitonal, so MK stops banging heads with literally every other damn character in the Marvel universe... Plus how many masked avenger of the night types can you name that
A. Dont have there own city
B. Have a city thats not completely fictional

Next you want to stop him from being crazy... No one wants to read about a guy who is fruit loops insane. An its easy enough to make him not insane... It turns out that the explosion form MK's origin lodged the smallest pieace of ceramic into his brain & its slowly been moving into the brain making him more and more crazy. Heck that could be how he ends up in a new city... Emergency surgery at the number one brain surgery hospital in the US. Because this Konshu stuff has got to go. At one point it was tolerable, but essentially everything thats been done with it, has painted it essentially as a shared dellusion.

Next, you need to actually streamline the character. Who is he, what are his abilities, what his M.O. Not just MK & his civilian identity, of which he requires "ONE," not 20. Same goes for his supporting cast... Ditch them. Frenchie deserves no more then the worst possible death in comics. He was a grab bag of french cliches & then became a grab bag of gay cliches. Same with Marleen; i mean talk about a Mary Sue. I swear she existed just to have bad things happen to her. Upside is that you get a brand new supporting cast.

After that you need a compelling form of conflict. Something that MK can oppose in some way. Something that is not only long term, but can result in short term oppositon too. Moon Knight kind of needs a less rich version of Lex Luthor. A Lex Luthor who is all about owning the new city for instance. I could also suggest using something like a new MGH style drug or Big Bang style effect to create new viilains, ala Bang Babies (possibly a weaponised formula developed by said Luthor analogue).

An this leads into the development of an entire rogues gallery of villains over time, which was always one of the biggest draws for the early post crisis Batman books. An never ever again mention any of MK's old villains... Because they were all excessively lame.

As for style of book, i would go kind of year 2 batman style: He has the skills, he has the tech, but now he has to apply it. An in that way he comes into indirect conflict with his Lex... By years end the two are aware of each other directly, the plot has opened out to the point where it becomes apparent that the Lex has a bigger plan for "his" city. Already we see the parts start to slot together, including the testing of a new MGH like drug on part of the populace. I'd like to think that that would even possibly result in a female sidekick character for MK... An for some reason in my head said sidekick is like Misfit in that she can teleport & is completely untrained. I also like to think that she tried to go it alone & while investigating her MK is ambushed & pinned down, only to be saved by Misfit. It'd be a nice spin on the old Hero saves potential sidekick moment. An you know what, if i could get a fast enough team to work on the book (or if we could get far enough ahead), i would porobably make it a fortnightly book.

Because thats the two things MK has always been missing: Consistency & Mythos.

Of course this is all moot since Marvel would never do any of the above... As it would include effort & taking a chance, two things that Marvel have shied away from in the last 5 years. Thats why we now have 1 whole book thats not in Marvels top 4 franchises, or a derivative property of thsoe 4: The Defenders.

[Hulk_Is]

Of course this is all moot since Marvel would never do any of the above... .

Thank god they wouldn't. If I wanna read about Batman then guess what I'd be doing. And, the getting rid of the supernatural aspects? You've lost your marbles more than Bendis' MK has.

[Moriarty]

i'd like it if he came back to Secret Avengers now that his solo book has been canned. maybe they can do some damage control or something.

[kelly_warrior_princess]

Thank god they wouldn't. If I wanna read about Batman then guess what I'd be doing. And, the getting rid of the supernatural aspects? You've lost your marbles more than Bendis' MK has.

Except the supernatural stuff has never worked. They've tried it half a dozen times & every time they did, it bombed.

An i never said make him Batman, i said marvel needs to recognise that he is essentially batman. He's batman with the numbers filed off. There is no shame in that... But its what direction they choose to go in next & the above direction is a direction with a bright future: A bright future where the character stops being an also ran batman knock-off & comes into his own, moving forward & developing his own tropes... Taking the best from all previous runs of Moon Knight & ditching what does not work & has never worked.

If you are going to copy the Dark Avenger of the night mold: Batman, The Shadow & Doc Savage are all great places to start... Because insane priest of a fictional murder god, who may or may not exist, just isn't working for them.

Make Moon Knight Batman, in the same way Milestone made Icon Superman... Only in the most general of themes.

[Hulk_Is]

I'm sorry, but I don't wanna read about a character that never loses ala Batman. Becuse that's one of the things your ideas basically alludes to. A Batman-esque Moon Knight would require that he never loses and it'd groom readers to think that MK is literally some white knight when he's really as red as sin, hence why he even bothers using other personalities in the first place.

One of the things I personally love about MK is that he !@#$ing loses and loses hard despite being equipped with high-tech gear and loads of cash. Even when Batman loses he still wins.

Your premise may sell a crap-ton of books and make him a high-profile character, but with that out goes most things that make MK special IMO.

[kelly_warrior_princess]

I'm sorry, but I don't wanna read about a character that never loses ala Batman.

Who said that he would never lose? Where was that written?

An if you think Batman never loses, then you obviously haven't read many Bat Books over the years.

Becuse that's one of the things your ideas basically alludes to. A Batman-esque Moon Knight would require that he never loses and it'd groom readers to think that MK is literally some white knight when he's really as red as sin, hence why he even bothers using other personalities in the first place.

Dude, Moon Knight has always been a Batman-esque character... He's just been less interesting because Marvel never gave him a chance to step out of the shadow of the more interesting Batman. Rich white guy, putso n costume to fight crime with his arsenal of toys, including a special plane, car, motor-cycle & boat. Check, check & double check. Batman is just a place holder for the kind of legacy he should tap into. Doc Savage had it, Zorro had it, The Shadow had it & Moon Knight needs it.

If you think for a second that Moon Knight is not Batman-esque, then i'd guess you probably haven't read the old Moon Knight stuff.

The only reason the original relaunch did okay was because they went with the "deconstructing a broken hero" idea... Of course that couldn't last long, as no deconstruction can: At some point you run out of things to deconstruct. Al subsequent titles pretty much bombed.

One of the things I personally love about MK is that he !@#$ing loses and loses hard despite being equipped with high-tech gear and loads of cash. Even when Batman loses he still wins.

Except no one wants to read about a Batman character that constantly gets his arse kicked. Thats why the only time it sold well was during the start of the deconstructionist era of the title. All subsequent books have failed like crazy. The only way to build this character up again is to let him go his own way: Every single attempt for him to play mercenary hero has failed, every attempt a paranormal/supernatural horror has failed... Its time to get serious and think: What do people really want out of a Hero of the Night style character... An the answer is pretty simple... a HERO of the night.

There is a reason why characters like Batman, The Shadow & Zorro are so timeless... Because there themes are so easy to adapt.

Your premise may sell a crap-ton of books and make him a high-profile character, but with that out goes most things that make MK special IMO.

Except that there is nothing special about Moon Knight: He's this character whose concept is more interesting then his execution: He's become Marvels wonder woman... The character people likes to know exists, but doesn't really care to read about. Thats why his mythos (what little of it that exists,) is messed around so often. Its why he's so inconsistent from story line to story line. He's all over the place.

All the parts needed for a top book are already there, you don't need to change Moon Knight (beyond making him not crazy), so much as you need to focus on what is important & phase out those things that are stopping the interesting stuff from being enjoyable. Outside of him being crazy & getting beaten a lot, its his surroundings that make him not at all interesting. NYC is to full of heroes, that anything he does comes off as dull. Time to give him his own playground, some actual cast that people actually want to read about & his own villains/plots. This character cannot keep living in his past, its starting to get sad... Its like those college Football stars who peaked at age 18 & then spend the rest of there lives rehashing there old victories.


As for selling a lot of books, i'd agree. Of course it would sell, because its a significantly more interesting take on the character then anything thats been done with him pretty much ever.

[Hulk_Is]

Who said that he would never lose? Where was that written?

An if you think Batman never loses, then you obviously haven't read many Bat Books over the years.

I'm certain that Batman loses sometimes, but the character also has a status that gives off the impression that the character is a winner and if you want to be kewl, then read Batman (or Batgod, at this point the titles are nearly interchangable).

Dude, Moon Knight has always been a Batman-esque character... He's just been less interesting because Marvel never gave him a chance to step out of the shadow of the more interesting Batman. Rich white guy, putso n costume to fight crime with his arsenal of toys, including a special plane, car, motor-cycle & boat. Check, check & double check. Batman is just a place holder for the kind of legacy he should tap into. Doc Savage had it, Zorro had it, The Shadow had it & Moon Knight needs it.

I need to hear more about this so-called legacy that Moon Knight should tap into before we proceed any further.

If you think for a second that Moon Knight is not Batman-esque, then i'd guess you probably haven't read the old Moon Knight stuff.

I've read the old MK stuff and irregardless if he's Batman-esque, many people the world over still can appreciate their differences enough as to make distinctions.

The only reason the original relaunch did okay was because they went with the "deconstructing a broken hero" idea... Of course that couldn't last long, as no deconstruction can: At some point you run out of things to deconstruct. Al subsequent titles pretty much bombed.

Except no one wants to read about a Batman character that constantly gets his arse kicked. Thats why the only time it sold well was during the start of the deconstructionist era of the title. All subsequent books have failed like crazy. The only way to build this character up again is to let him go his own way: Every single attempt for him to play mercenary hero has failed, every attempt a paranormal/supernatural horror has failed... Its time to get serious and think: What do people really want out of a Hero of the Night style character... An the answer is pretty simple... a HERO of the night.

There is a reason why characters like Batman, The Shadow & Zorro are so timeless... Because there themes are so easy to adapt.

David Finch left and creative teams constantly shifted. With the biggest draw gone and a lack of a consistent creative team didn't help to maintain readers.

Okay, so, Moon Knight becomes a Hero of the Night. If he can no longer carry any guilt or resulting trauma from his days as a mercenary, or having ever been in fateful league with Werewolf By Night - what then becomes of his origins? Any ideas? I'm just not yet sold on your ideas, but I'd like MK to succeed as much you sound like you do.

Except that there is nothing special about Moon Knight: He's this character whose concept is more interesting then his execution: He's become Marvels wonder woman... The character people likes to know exists, but doesn't really care to read about. Thats why his mythos (what little of it that exists,) is messed around so often. Its why he's so inconsistent from story line to story line. He's all over the place.

All the parts needed for a top book are already there, you don't need to change Moon Knight (beyond making him not crazy), so much as you need to focus on what is important & phase out those things that are stopping the interesting stuff from being enjoyable. Outside of him being crazy & getting beaten a lot, its his surroundings that make him not at all interesting. NYC is to full of heroes, that anything he does comes off as dull. Time to give him his own playground, some actual cast that people actually want to read about & his own villains/plots. This character cannot keep living in his past, its starting to get sad... Its like those college Football stars who peaked at age 18 & then spend the rest of there lives rehashing there old victories.

I don't personally think that him just being in NY is any real hampering for the character as there are plenty of heroes that rub shoulders everyday there and that doesn't make them any less interesting. Bendis gave to Moon Knight L.A. and that was universally ok'ed by readers, but that change of digs did not stave off the book from being cancelled.

You're also assuming that readers - new and old - wouldn't and don't want to read about his most well-known supporting cast. Just because you're tired of them and are using past sales as an indication of an irrelavance does not make it so for everyone else.

I believe that you are suggesting a 'New 52'-ing of the character essentially. The real problem that I see occuring (besides pissing off fans like myself) is the fact that readers tend to backtrack these characters and look at their beginnings - which is fine, but since MK doesn't exsist in the DCnU some people are going to wonder why such a wholesale ignoring of the characters past. All of the characters special quirks and nuances will be gone as per your ideas. Some may like it, but if older MK fans don't like your rendition, then that is alot of readers shed from the title. Mind you, alot of older readers could stay on and then you'd possibly have a hit. But, I don't see this pale imitation of a character working without a superb creative team and some luck IMO.

As for selling a lot of books, i'd agree. Of course it would sell, because its a significantly more interesting take on the character then anything thats been done with him pretty much ever.

I don't find your Hero of the Night suggestion all that intriguing tbh. Moon Knight isn't Batman, so I don't see your version of MK selling more than 45,000 copies at most. I don't see myself being a supporter of MK 2.0 and I can't see many other who would either.

[kelly_warrior_princess]

I'm certain that Batman loses sometimes, but the character also has a status that gives off the impression that the character is a winner

Oh how sick... People don't want to read about a character thats a winner, they obviosly want to read about a character who's a loser... I mean thats opbviously reflected by the sales numbers on Moon Knight, when compared to Batman... Wait a second, no its not.

I need to hear more about this so-called legacy that Moon Knight should tap into before we proceed any further.

The same narrative legacy that has served all the Dark Avengers before him: That sense of theatrics possessed by Zorro, The Shadow, The Spider, Doc Savege, Black Beetle & Batman. The insular city full of interesting characters & locations. The dens of iniquity ready for our rogue of hearts, the corrupt officials & the femme fatales. The Allure of the mysterious stranger, the equipment of the trade, secret door knocks & hidden trap doors. To some degree all the masked heroes of the night have had those... All except Moon Knight.

So in Moon Knights case, i would go, shining city by day, corrupt by night. Mysterious Mark Spector sets up business interests in area, as he recovers from his surgery. See's the underbelly first hand & decides to lend his expertise. Purchases a property, with a hidden HQ. Stream-lines his gadgets to more permanent features: The car, the bike, the gyrocopter. Ditch the ninja weapons but keep the billy club/staff. Give him the starts of a network of informants working for Moon Knight: Informants who are charsiamtic/interesting. A love interest, who isn't at all shadowy (because its nice to thumb your nose at tradition sometimes). More investigation & thinking through battles, less throwing yourself at the enemy like an idiot. An eventually pick up a girl friday, as a plucky side-kick.

I've read the old MK stuff and irregardless if he's Batman-esque, many people the world over still can appreciate their differences enough as to make distinctions.

The only real distinction is that when someone does something stupid with Batman, they have the good sense to get rid of it, if it didn't work.

David Finch left and creative teams constantly shifted. With the biggest draw gone and a lack of a consistent creative team didn't help to maintain readers.

Even between volumes, there was no consistency.

Okay, so, Moon Knight becomes a Hero of the Night. If he can no longer carry any guilt or resulting trauma from his days as a mercenary, or having ever been in fateful league with Werewolf By Night - what then becomes of his origins? Any ideas? I'm just not yet sold on your ideas, but I'd like MK to succeed as much you sound like you do.

The same thing that became of Batmans origin when he finally decided that he needed to move on from his parents death. He didn't suddenly stop being Batman, but he did realise that he couldn't continue to live in the past... What has happened has already happened; no amount of agonising is going to change that. MK is the same, he needs to move on & just like his fan base, he needs to stop living in the past.

I don't personally think that him just being in NY is any real hampering for the character as there are plenty of heroes that rub shoulders everyday there and that doesn't make them any less interesting. Bendis gave to Moon Knight L.A. and that was universally ok'ed by readers, but that change of digs did not stave off the book from being cancelled.

Sure but there is a difference between Hero & Hero of the Night. Hero of the Night, needs space, distance between himself and other heroes. He should be able to exist as a phantom, walking through the city, like a man walking through the mists. Having hundreds of other amazing characters in the same area messess that up. When something goes bump in the night on the roof, the criminal element needs to be thinking "oh god he's found us," not "don't worry its, probably spiderman, he passess this way this time every wednesday."

You're also assuming that readers - new and old - wouldn't and don't want to read about his most well-known supporting cast. Just because you're tired of them and are using past sales as an indication of an irrelavance does not make it so for everyone else.

Dude trust me, there are like 5 people who care about his supporting cast. An 3 of those people only care because they want the characters to die in a most painful way. His supporting cast where the least likeable grab bag of supporting cast in any comic book ever. They were a single line pitch that never developed beyond that one line pitch.

I believe that you are suggesting a 'New 52'-ing of the character essentially. The real problem that I see occuring (besides pissing off fans like myself) is the fact that readers tend to backtrack these characters and look at their beginnings - which is fine, but since MK doesn't exsist in the DCnU some people are going to wonder why such a wholesale ignoring of the characters past.

It wouldn't be ignoring the past, just not constantly going back to it... which is good because there wasn't all that much to it it start with. Everything that has happened, has happened... Its just not as important as what would be happnening now.

I don't find your Hero of the Night suggestion all that intriguing tbh. Moon Knight isn't Batman, so I don't see your version of MK selling more than 45,000 copies at most. I don't see myself being a supporter of MK 2.0 and I can't see many other who would either.

Sure they would. Just like how people said that no one wanted to read a Captain America monthly & then Bruabaker did something different with it. It didn't suddenly invalidate his past history, it just made the contemporary interesting again. Thats all this would be... MK written in a way that would be interesting to a larger audience.