In defence of the 90s DC

[MajorHoy]

Agreed. So much. Don't get me wrong, I like Kyle okay, but when people act as if he's such a great character and so much more interesting than Hal or John, I'm always a little baffled. Kyle was a total 90's stereotype. He was likable and there were some cool stories, but there was a lot of eye rolling stuff too.

But if Kyle was your "first Green Lantern", I'm assuming there's a definite attachment there. (No matter how illogical it may seem to some of us.)

[Fate's Faith]

But if Kyle was your "first Green Lantern", I'm assuming there's a definite attachment there. (No matter how illogical it may seem to some of us.)

You have to consider Hal up to that point also. Obviously, he just needed the right writer since Hal is a much more fun character now than he was before Parallax. When Kyle came along, it was after a period when Hal just couldn't seem to get any more boring. Kyle drinking coffee was better than Hal's moping and that is more a condemnation of Hal than Kyle to me.

[Mat001]

The quality was never the issues. Those people weren't reading the comics they were buying. They were trying to make a fast buck and when that didn't happen they dumped the industry. They thought they were buying something scarce and when their copy of X-men no. 1 was being bought for a quarter they packed their bags & left.

It was starting prior to the 90's, but that's when it exploded. It wasn't so much that the industry itself was promoting that notion, but that word got out on how valuable those actual scarce comics, like the Golden and Silver Age comics were, which really promoted the speculation boom. Especially when you had sports cards that were discovered to be of great value.

[Babylon23]

The problem isn't a lack of quality books in the 90's. There were clear highlights, most of which have already been listed.

The problem is that the worst of the decade was so monumentally bad, especially during the early 90's boom when Marvel and DC were more concerned with quantity over quality. For every great book, there were 3 or 4 books like Extreme Justice, Fantastic Force or Youngblood. Bad girl comics became a craze, substituting good storytelling and art for fanboy pandering. Bad event comics like Zero Hour and Genesis were another fad and gave rise to the idea that character deaths in these events were necessary to make the books "relevant" and give them "impact. Gimmick covers became the norm. Awfully written character deaths like Emerald Twilight were designed to create sales spikes.

But the underlying problem was that Marvel and DC didn't care about long term planning or maintaining the quality of their books. They saw the money coming in and looked for new ways to cash in, whether it was through gimmick covers, awful events, character deaths or flooding the market with sub-standard product.

The quality books were a small oasis in a desert of crap.

[havok1977]

I keep hearing the word "90s" thrown around like an insult. Since that is when I started reading comic books, I have a fond nostalgia for that era, and want to defend it. So this thread is dedicated to all the wonderful things to come out of DC in the 90s.

Kyle Rayner
The modern age Superboy
Impulse
Young Justice
Kingdom Come
Starman
Mark Waid's Flash
The Death and Return of Superman

Metal Woman

Anyone that still sees The Death and Return of Superman as a high point of comics in any decade needs to take 15 minutes of their time to watch this video and find out why it sucked so hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=0PlwDbSYicM

[Sir Duke]

I only need one word to justify the 90s as being one of the best decades in comics:

Vertigo

[Fused]

I keep hearing the word "90s" thrown around like an insult. Since that is when I started reading comic books, I have a fond nostalgia for that era, and want to defend it. So this thread is dedicated to all the wonderful things to come out of DC in the 90s.

Kyle Rayner
The modern age Superboy
Impulse
Young Justice
Kingdom Come
Starman
Mark Waid's Flash
The Death and Return of Superman

Metal Woman

Hear Hear, MetalWoman! I have fond memories of the 90s. Granted I have longboxes full of worthless comics from that era, they at least have sentimental value. I was 12 or 13 at the time and it was Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane and Mike Deodato that got me into superhero comics.

I grew up with books like Wonder Woman, JLA, X-Men, Spider-Man, and Gen 13 in the 90s and love them for it!

[Rakzo]

I love 90's DC because of all of their great series but also hate it for all the terrible trends that they were forced to follow, at least they were'nt as bad as Marvel I guess.

By the way, Conner Kent/Kon-El, Bart Allen and Kyle Rayner were walking 90's stereotypes when they were first created and only started to become interesting once that they were getting away of that awful decade.

[Mat001]

Anyone that still sees The Death and Return of Superman as a high point of comics in any decade needs to take 15 minutes of their time to watch this video and find out why it sucked so hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=0PlwDbSYicM

I stopped after two minutes. The reason that the death and return is lauded is because it's about stirring the emotions within the reader, regarding Superman. It's so easy to take the character for granted, that you miss out on what the overall value of said character is. The death itself is fairly basic, but the second and third acts really stand out. The second act has a great character study of all the known characters within the Superman lore, as well as the impact on the other DCU characters and in the entire universe. It is here where the taking for granted stuff really comes into play. We got to see how the world tried to move on after his death. Lex is angry that it wasn't his doing and now has lost his purpose in life. Lois is a mess. Jimmy feels guilty for profiting off of his friend's death. Jonathan feels that it's his fault that his son decided to use his abilities in the first place. Booster was forced to grow up.

The Reign is also well received because kept readers guessing as to the outcome and had a much stronger, more defined story than the first act. It was about how Superman inspired three different people to take up his legacy, which in turn brought out some of the best characters in DC history. The mystery and the anticipation were worth the wait, so much so that you could hear the score for the first four Superman films in your head. Especially the main theme during the last ten pages of Superman #82.

[Jordanstine]

Oh the lovely 90's.

The biggest books I remember reading in the 90's were:

- All the X-Books (X-Men was huge in the 90's)
- Spawn (he was big too)
- Batman (Knightfall)
- Superman (Death / Return)
- Green Lantern (Emerald Twilight to Zero Hour)
- Daredevil (Tree of Knowledge)

[Red_10]

I only need one word to justify the 90s as being one of the best decades in comics:

Vertigo

This.

I wouldn't still be reading comics if it wasn't for Vertigo.

[fedup23]

If you call those titles selling better than they had in years, by a large margin a disaster sure. They were brought back in house because of the banruptcy and not hitting contract specified sales levels that were not achievable in that market but not because of poor sales. Were they creatively successful? depends on the reader but the books were far & away not a disaster sales wise.

I dont care how well they sold. They were a disaster. ( IMO )

[fedup23]

Anyone that still sees The Death and Return of Superman as a high point of comics in any decade needs to take 15 minutes of their time to watch this video and find out why it sucked so hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=0PlwDbSYicM

I would rather read every issue of that series again than watch any more of this guys rants.. he is trying WAY too hard in this video, its uncomfortable to watch. ( IMO )

[refrax5]

You have to consider Hal up to that point also. Obviously, he just needed the right writer since Hal is a much more fun character now than he was before Parallax. When Kyle came along, it was after a period when Hal just couldn't seem to get any more boring. Kyle drinking coffee was better than Hal's moping and that is more a condemnation of Hal than Kyle to me.

I don't really agree, since Kyle was just as mopey, if not moreso. And I have a lot of the older GL comics, including Hal's whole run prior to that point. He was a lot more complex and layered than he is now or Kyle was then. The first 8 issues of Gerard Jones run of Hal was to get him away from being mopey. After that, he was much more aggressive and confident. He was more thoughtful because he was older and him trying to mature was a big part of that series. John Stewart was also at his absolute best during that era too. I mean, I really got into GL during the 90's during Emerald Twilight (prior to that, I only knew Hal and John from a few comics from when I was little), JLA: Year One and Flash and GL: Brave and the Bold. I mean, I got into GL in the 90's and I always thought Hal was infinitely cooler and more interesting. Confident, brash, fun loving daredevils were unique to me in the 90's. There were a zillion characters just like Kyle.

I'm not really against Kyle. I've enjoyed him a lot over the years. But I really hated how often DC tried to basically take their classic heroes, try to prove to readers how lame and outdated they were just to promote the "young, hip" heroes. I always felt Marvel handled that stuff better. For example, James Rhodes was Iron Man when I started reading the IM comic, and to this day, I actually prefer Rhodes as a character. However, Marvel never felt the need to get rid of Stark permanently and constantly try to beat you over the head with how much more cool and hip Rhodey was. No, they gave Rhodey his own identity and kept Tony Stark as Iron Man. I'd rather Rhodey be War Machine in his own costume and series than just having him using Tony's name and wearing his clothes, you know?

That's why I'm not a big fan of legacy characters. And yes, I realize Hal is technically a legacy character, but he's so unique from Alan and managed to coexist with him, so it doesn't bother me.

[Wonder39]

I keep hearing the word "90s" thrown around like an insult. Since that is when I started reading comic books, I have a fond nostalgia for that era, and want to defend it. So this thread is dedicated to all the wonderful things to come out of DC in the 90s.

Kyle Rayner
The modern age Superboy
Impulse
Young Justice
Kingdom Come
Starman
Mark Waid's Flash
The Death and Return of Superman

Metal Woman

I think the derogatory use of "90s" just comes from the seemingly similar overly-fussy art styles then and now, as well as the INSANE costume design. You had a lot of excess in the 90s art styling and costume detailing-- but very little substance-- and I think there's a lot of that going on right now.SOme of the art I've seen is horrible, and for the most part the costume designs are way to fussy, overly detailed, and just plain ugly!

ALso, as others have said, there was a push in the 90s towards meeting the speculative market. Companies increased production and gimmicks (variant covers, holographic covers, etc) to sell to a growing market. Same thing happened with collectors cards, Barbie dolls, and Beane Babies. Non collectors found out old stuff was worth some $ and kept buying multiple issues, all perfectly sealed and pristine. Too much supply + not enough demand killed the market. It was all quantity and little quality...

Matt