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  1. #31
    Jaeger secret-keeper Sandor Clegane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    DC's mainstream stuff was mostly quite bad, but with some great bright spots;

    Morrison's JLA
    Robinson's Starman
    Robinson's The Golden Age
    Ennis' Hitman
    Simonson's Orion
    Waid's Kingdom Come
    Ostrander's Spectre
    Chronos
    Chase
    Resurrection Man
    Good list. I'd add Peyer's Hourman, but otherwise that's the creme of the 90s.

    I do differentiate DC's output from the early 90s, which was mostly crass garbage. DC was all about carpetbagging the shock storytelling of the era to create whatever sales it could - death of Superman, Knightfall, Emerald Twilight, Zero Hero, etc. Basically - "Let's crap on ourselves and see if people notice!"

    No.

    But late 90s DC? Some really great stuff, especially wherever writers like Morrison or Waid were involved.

  2. #32
    Jaeger secret-keeper Sandor Clegane's Avatar
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    Ironically, the late 90s to early 2000s period, while being much higher in quality, holds the mark for being the lowest era in sales in comics history.

    So while quality improved dramatically, not too many noticed. What's even stranger is that online fandom is still - to this day - dominated by fans from that era. That might be because that's when the internet took off, so there was some confluence between internet fandom (message boards, chat rooms, etc.) and comics fandom.

  3. #33
    King of My World CagedLeo730's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fedup23 View Post
    The majority of the problems with the 90's seems to come from IMAGE, with things like BloodStrike, YoungBlood, Bloodpool, BloodYoung, StrikeBlood etc etc.

    But yeah.. Marvel tried to get on the Liefield/Lee bus (too late) too with Heroes Reborn... disaster.. hopefully Lee/Liefield dont drive the DC bus into the wall this time around.
    People like to forget that sales for Fantastic Four and Iron Man rose significantly under Jim Lee. Avengers and Captain America didn't do as well but still outsold previous series. Then there was the politics involved with the contract re-negotiations mid-arc. Liefeld walked but Jim Lee stayed on. Those final issues sold very well for Marvel still.
    What's in question is if Heroes Reborn would have continued on or if it was always gonna be just 12-13 issues. I think that Marvel will never farm out their main titles ever again. This could have been a desperate attempt to stop sagging sales.

  4. #34
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    Still, Vertigo emerged in the 90s, and it was brilliant with books like Sandman, Enigma, Shade the Changing Man, the Invisibles, etc. really revolutionizing the way comics could be told.
    Vertigo was and remains a problem, for pretty much that reason.
    Superhero comic books only become art to the extent that their banal, unrealistic fantasy and garish styles go too far and become interesting. Attempts to ground them in reality can only ruin them.

  5. #35
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    The problem with the 90s wasn't that the overall quality was bad. It's that things like Death of Superman and the crap Image was putting out that caused the speculator's bubble to blow up. Once that bubble popped, the industry declined into where it is now.

  6. #36
    Tai'shar Manetheren Jadenewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    The problem with the 90s wasn't that the overall quality was bad. It's that things like Death of Superman and the crap Image was putting out that caused the speculator's bubble to blow up. Once that bubble popped, the industry declined into where it is now.
    True it was the end of the Speculator market that really wounded the Comic Industry.
    D-Deadman! You killed Deadman!!

  7. #37
    Senior Member ascended's Avatar
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    Well, the 90's were really a rather odd period when you think about it.

    During the early years we saw DC dump their history and older characters in favor of new ones. Superman died. Green Arrow died. Batman was broken. Hal Jordan went insane. Wonder Woman was stripped of her titles and authority. Aquaman lost a hand. The JSA died or were aged into their senior years. Many of the survivors retired. Most of the big names were screwed with in ways that didnt really respect the characters or their fans. At least from the fan's perspective. And we got some terrible replacements too. Fate, Firebrand, the 90's Manhunter, and so on. Pretty terrible stuff that really represented the worst of the early 90's.

    But we also got Jack Knight, Kyle Rayner, Impulse, Tim Drake, Azreal, Aztek, Steel, Superboy, Cassie Sandsmark, Vertigo, and so on. Many of these characters are still around, and even those who are not are still missed and loved. And we got some amazing stories out of those days too, like the Golden Age, and a number of Batman tales, and so on. The first half of the 90's gave us some great Superman stories after his return too.

    So those early years, really, were good for the new readers who had no prior emotional investment, but terrible for those who had been around for a while.

    But towards the end of the decade, after the comics bubble burst, we saw a return to a lot of nostalgia driven stuff too. The return of Krypto, Kara Zor-El, the JSA, and so on. The industry (DC especially it seems) went full reverse in the face of falling sales. Nostalgia became the word of the day.

    Its sort of odd. The late 80's showed that comics could appeal to adults and tell adult stories. And the 90's jumped on that interest and went overboard on the grim and dark stuff. And as the years went by the audience became almost completely adult. Now, twenty years later, those fans are largely bored and unhappy with things, and the industry has been cornered. They can either try to keep their established fans, continue writing for adults, or risk dropping those fans by aiming back at kids who are now completely uninterested in the genre. Add the birth of digital and the death of print to the mix, and, well, the term SNAFU comes to mind.

  8. #38
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
    I think that all of the Image founders were artists that came from Marvel:

    Todd McFarlane (Spider-Man)
    Jim Lee (X-Men)
    Rob Liefeld (X-Force)
    Marc Silvestri (Wolverine)
    Erik Larsen (The Amazing Spider-Man)
    Jim Valentino (Guardians of the Galaxy)
    Whilce Portacio (Uncanny X-Men)

    I may have forgotten one or two. The only writer involved at the founding of Image was Claremont, if I am remembering right.
    But people like McFarlane had also done work at DC before Marvel.

    And some of those Image guys had also started doing some writing as well before joining up to create Image.

  9. #39
    Senior Member jsf's Avatar
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    I think DC published some great stuff during the '90's especially when compared to Marvel. This was definitely a decade when my reading habits shifted firmly towards DC (as opposed to being roughly split between the big 2), and have pretty much remained that way since then. I think the thing that impressed me was that the '90's had a brief moment where it felt like DC was doing what they did when the ushered in the Silver Age with Barry Allen: introducing new characters that represented a fresh take on old ideas. The "legacy" notion really came into play during this period, and I, as a long time collector, appreciated it. I sometimes wish DC had had the stones to make the changes stick, rather than reverting back to Satellite league era of characters. It could have been one of those watershed moments in the history of the medium; instead we wound up with Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis and a host of subpar stories that people gush about, but I find to be pretty crap. At the moment I find the New 52 to be enjoyable for what it is, but I have a deep suspicion the reset button will get pressed once again when the powers that be find it necessary (or convenient).

    But I really enjoyed the '90's for DC (much more than most of the '00's).

  10. #40
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Triangle era Superman
    Morrison JLA/Animal Man
    JLI
    Waid Flash
    Kingdom Come
    U.S.
    Sandman
    Vertigo
    Milestone
    Impact
    Gerard Jones GL/GL: Mosaic/El Diablo
    Gibbons/Rude Worlds Finest mini
    Perez Wonder Woman
    Ostrander's Spectre/Firestorm/Martian Manhunter
    Chronos
    Hourman
    Vext
    Chase
    Power of Shazam
    Resurrection Man
    Major Bummer
    Hitman
    Starman
    Stars&STRIPE
    Sandman Mystery Theatre
    Golden Age
    JLA: Year 1
    Flash/GL: The Brave and the Bold
    Kessels 1st Superboy run
    Impulse
    Peter Davids Young Justice, Aquaman, Supergirl, B5 and Star Trek
    Preists Steel
    Superman/Batman Adventures/JLU
    etc...

    I mean, really...how does it need defending?
    Last edited by dupersuper; 04-23-2012 at 10:10 PM.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  11. #41
    Almost a Member Roldan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fedup23 View Post
    The majority of the problems with the 90's seems to come from IMAGE, with things like BloodStrike, YoungBlood, Bloodpool, BloodYoung, StrikeBlood etc etc.
    Don't forget BloodBlood.

  12. #42
    Junior Member Ice Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    ...
    Kessels 1st Superboy run
    Impulse
    Peter Davids Young Justice
    ...
    I mean, really...how does it need defending?
    If anything needs defending I'd like to hear a good defence for what Geoff Johns did to these because I cant think of one.

    Some of DC 90's triumphs (Superboy & Impulse) destroyed by 1 man, Tim Drake was of course saved (for the most part) by the strong editorial control of the Batman books.

  13. #43
    SNIKT! davidn15's Avatar
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    So how was green lantern in the 90s? I've been interested in collecting back issues of the 90s series but some input before I dive in would be nice.
    Currently Reading: The Authority, Bone

    Comics Of Days Past - Reading the greats of yesteryear

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidn15 View Post
    So how was green lantern in the 90s? I've been interested in collecting back issues of the 90s series but some input before I dive in would be nice.
    The Kyle Rayner run? It's really boring IMO. They try so hard to make Kyle an "everyman" like Peter Parker that he's basically a 90s cliche.

  15. #45
    ..for whom the bell tolls The Frozen Reptile's Avatar
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    I stopped buying comics about 1997 for about ten years because I didn't like the way things were going, and with the increases in comic book prices (then I was paying 4,25$ cdn a book) and I found most of the art of the era (and the writing) a little lacking. I always kept up with Superman (what was going on) but not much other than that. Maybe because my favourite era is still late Silver Age/Bronze Age I am a little jaded. But I did enjoy some of the hype of the early 90's with the Death and Rebirth and the breaking of the Bat.
    "Make yourself comfortable, I haven’t time to attend to it." - With these words, a legend was born.

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