Wonder Woman Sales Figure Discussion

[brettc1]

So much for "it is obvious WW has slipped below 50k now, maybe even below 49k!"

Over 51k. Don't quit your day job.

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...2/2012-03.html

Manners.

[brettc1]

Yeah, but that's not why Azz's #7 is doing so much better than JMS's first issue.

Seems like you're skipping Gail Simone's run, which showed admirable persistence, but was below 51k (Azz's current level) within a couple of issues. (Yes, I realize she didn't have the advantage of starting with a new volume or a low number, though she did have the advantage of following issues that were selling better than the end of Odyssey. There are lots of reasons besides the creative team why runs do better or worse. But for whatever reason, Azz's run is doing better.)

By the way, Rucka's issue seventh sold 25,610. Jimenez's seventh issue sold 31,074.

Neither Simone, Rucka, or Jimenez had the benefit of a company wide relaunch and you self acknowledged deep discount to boost sales though.

Rucka's run got bigger numbers at the end, dont forget - when DC cancelled the book at the height of its popularity [one day I hope someone spills the beans on THAT decision]

[slvn]

Neither Simone, Rucka, or Jimenez had the benefit of a company wide relaunch and you self acknowledged deep discount to boost sales though.

Sure. The relaunch and incentive program helped, as they were supposed to. Good for DC! Like I said, there are lots of reasons besides the creative team why a title succeeds or not. I was just arguing that this run, for whatever reason, is selling successfully, contrary to what Element Woman said.

Rucka's run got bigger numbers at the end, dont forget - when DC cancelled the book at the height of its popularity [one day I hope someone spills the beans on THAT decision

Yep. See--sales can improve during a run. Maybe we should get Azz to have Wonder Woman kill Max again.

[MuhollandDriver]

The relaunch helped the majority of DCs top characters, not just Wonder Woman.

Wasn't the end of Rucka's run a crossover with Infinite Crisis? It also had the controversial event of Wonder Woman snapping Maxwell Lord's neck. Both of those likely helped the series in the sales department. There is nothing wrong about that, just like there is nothing wrong with Wonder Woman or other titles gaining sales from a relaunch. Most titles with popular characters go through those motions.

[brettc1]

Sure. The relaunch and incentive program helped, as they were supposed to. Good for DC! Like I said, there are lots of reasons besides the creative team why a title succeeds or not. I was just arguing that this run, for whatever reason, is selling successfully, contrary to what Element Woman said.

In fairness to EW, JMS could have made the same claim about the title when he left [and did as I recall, citing the 40K sales figures as a sign he had succeeded in his goal of 'saving the book'] Admittedly Azz is selling a 10 thousand more copies after an extra three months, but he also had an extra 30 thousand copies to build on with the relaunch.

My point is, success is subjective. EW is right to point out that about half the peole who bought issue #1 aren't still buying it [I am allowing for doubly buying for collectors]. And this month the sales have dropped another 4%.

So the question is, if in another year the book is selling at its usual margin of between 25 and 30 thousand, will it be a failure becuase it is only doing as well as previous runs, or a success because it kept its big numbers for longer?

Of course all this is moot if this time next year it is selling over 35 thousand issues, but only time will reveal if that will happen.

Yep. See--sales can improve during a run. Maybe we should get Azz to have Wonder Woman kill Max again.

That hardly seemsn necessary. Just by him a ticket on the next ship passing "Paradise" Island.

[MuhollandDriver]

About every single high-selling DC title dropped 4% this month. Other titles that initially sold over 100,000 are also nowhere near those numbers. Since Superman, Flash, and Aquaman are now selling in the 60,000s, are they possibly not successes since they aren't selling half as much as their first issue? Are Superman, Flash, Batgirl, Batwoman and GL New Guardians being as scrutinized? Are people claiming that those titles won't be "successful"?

I posted the numbers above. I feel it was necessary to point those out as well.

Wonder Woman lost around the same as most DC top-selling titles. She is the top-selling female title and is still beating the majority of A-List male solo characters at Marvel. Do we know how the title will sell in a year or two? Not really. That isn't the point. I sometimes sense that many people, including her fans, are pretty hard on Wonder Woman.

I don't think there is enough evidence to say how she will be doing in the far future. She is doing well right now, and her "drop" this month doesn't seem as big as some initially thought. Being in the moment is nice!

[brettc1]

About every single high-selling DC title dropped 4% this month. Other titles that initially sold over 100,000 are also nowhere near those numbers. Since Superman, Flash, and Aquaman are now selling in the 60,000s, are they possibly not successes since they aren't selling half as much as their first issue? Are Superman, Flash, Batgirl, Batwoman and GL New Guardians being as scrutinized? Are people claiming that those titles won't be "successful"?

I posted the numbers above. I feel it was necessary to point those out as well.

Wonder Woman lost around the same as most DC top-selling titles. She is the top-selling female title and is still beating the majority of A-List male solo characters at Marvel. Do we know how the title will sell in a year or two? Not really. That isn't the point. I sometimes sense that many people, including her fans, are pretty hard on Wonder Woman.

I don't think there is enough evidence to say how she will be doing in the far future. She is doing well right now, and her "drop" this month doesn't seem as big as some initially thought. Being in the moment is nice!

For people who are enjoying the writing, the numbers being high is a good thing. For those not, its not, because it means they have to wait longer to see a change. Ultimately, folks are selfish with their spending. So when you say there are some folks out there who want this run to fail, you are IMO absolutely correct, and its hard to argue that this is a bad thing from their point of veiw. I would say this is true of any book.

[MuhollandDriver]

I would agree if I said that in my last post, but I don't believe I did. I am aware that some want the book to fail. That is another issue entirely. My last post discussed how some are taking her selling significantly less than she did at #1 and her 4% drop as possible evidence that the book will fail. Looking at the numbers of other DC titles in the top 30 and top 40, it seems many if not most DC titles have similar patterns. Does everyone think that Superman, Flash, New Guardians, Batgirl or Batwoman are in danger of failing? Their sales trends, regardless of their placement on the charts, are pretty similar to Wonder Woman's.

[brettc1]

I would agree if I said that in my last post, but I don't believe I did. I am aware that some want the book to fail. That is another issue entirely. My last post discussed how some are taking her selling significantly less than she did at #1 and her 4% drop as possible evidence that the book will fail. Looking at the numbers of other DC titles in the top 30 and top 40, it seems many if not most DC titles have similar patterns. Does everyone think that Superman, Flash, New Guardians, Batgirl or Batwoman are in danger of failing? Their sales trends, regardless of their placement on the charts, are pretty similar to Wonder Woman's.

You would have to ask the fans of those books how they felt, and their answer would be as subjectively based on their enjoyment of the current writing as the answers you will get here about Wonder Woman.

It also depends on how you define 'fail'. Some people would say the Gail Simone run failed because its numbers started at 40K and levelled off at 25K. The folks who say that will almost invariably be the ones who didnt like the writing. Because lets face it, Buffy has been going now for about five years and it sells aboutn the same as WW's lowest figures almost every month. By all accounts then if you see WW numbers as a failure then Buffy and any book in an ongoing series that about the same as WW's usual 25K [or less] should not logically exist.

And yet they do.

Talking about success and failure is, therefore, almost meaningless. The only question is whether DC thinks a direction is lucrative enough to keep it going - where will they get the most money is their bottom line. If they could get that by spending the next four years evolving WW into a chain-smoking blood-thirsty rage monster, they would probably do it. I wouldnt be reading it of course, but that doesn't matter to DC if they are making the mulla from other folks.

[The Man From Room X]

Buffy isn't being published by the big 2 though, and the highest selling comic from indie I see on the sales charts is usually the Walking Dead. Indy and Vertigo comics don't need to perform as well as mainstream comics (Saucer Country's #1 issue was around the 80s I think, fantastic comic btw) If it were a DC comic and it wasn't about Jonah Hex or Manhunter, it would be cancelled by its 2nd year. Just sayin'

[brettc1]

Buffy isn't being published by the big 2 though, and the highest selling comic from indie I see on the sales charts is usually the Walking Dead. Indy and Vertigo comics don't need to perform as well as mainstream comics (Saucer Country's #1 issue was around the 80s I think, fantastic comic btw) If it were a DC comic and it wasn't about Jonah Hex or Manhunter, it would be cancelled by its 2nd year. Just sayin'

Someone will have to explain why this is so to me. Surely a book costs the same amount to publish across the board? I suppse there is a discount of sorts based on volume but basically if a bood can make a profit for a small company with 18k issues I dont see why that should not be the case for DC and Marvel.

[slvn]

So the question is, if in another year the book is selling at its usual margin of between 25 and 30 thousand, will it be a failure becuase it is only doing as well as previous runs, or a success because it kept its big numbers for longer?

In that case, the run will have been a financial success, to whatever degree it held its numbers longer, but its financial success will be behind it (just was we say that the Byrne run was a sales success for a while, and then not so much). I will be surprised if there hasn't been a creative team change if it's selling at that level in another year.

Citing the number of readers lost from issue 1 doesn't really address the question of whether it's selling well now. What percentage of its readers has Justice League lost since its first issue? Are we going to say that it's not selling well if it lost more than half of its readers, even though its still #3 (behind two issues of an event book) and selling well over 100k? I don't even like Justice League all that much, but I can acknowledge that its numbers are excellent. Whatever happened to the joys of snobbery and superiority? Can't more of the book's detractors just say ""OK, a lot of people like it, but they're all wrong"? (Or, you really want to be fair and accurate but a little boring, "A lot of people like it, but they have different aesthetic criteria than I do.")

JMS is right that his four issues sold well [ as long as by "well" he means better than the historical norm for Wonder Woman after the Perez era]. Whether his issues were good is a separate question that fans can judge based on their own aesthetic criteria. Same for Azz or any run.

For those fans who want the book to fail, the only problem, from a self-interested view, with that is this: failure makes a second ongoing and other Wonder Woman projects less likely. If sales for this book tank, DC's publishers may decide that Azz's "horror" approach was basically the right approach but not executed or marketed as well as it should be--so they might give it to Snyder or Lemire or someone to try horror again. And people who don't like that approach will still out of luck. On the other hand, if the book is successful, DC might green-light a second Wonder Woman book that would please the traditionalists more. (I'm not saying that fans who don't like it should buy the current run just in the hopes that they'll get a second title. Personally, if I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. Wishing it well in hopes of a second book is one thing; actually spending money on it is another.)

[slvn]

Yeah, honest to God, Andy, you are the best!!! Great work![img]http://www.***************************/4-8.jpg[/img]

Yes, and Andy (or Aegisbearer), in my opinion, you should let us know if you want us to argue about the numbers on another thread and reserve this one for just factually reporting them.

[BeccaBlast]

The numbers are in, everyone.

The issue sold 51,314 copies.

She sold 54,190 in February.

The big surprise? There isn't one. Wonder Woman is pulling the same natural numbers as all titles in the top 30 or top 40. The reason for the lower placement might have to do with Marvel releasing AvX, Age of Apocalypse #1 and an Avengers point one issue. Those are of course just theories, but after looking at the numbers, they hold no more water than anything else mentioned.

Well, those books account for three of the ten places the title dropped -- a drop steeper than any other title -- so it appears the majority of the "unprecedented" decline is something of a statistical anomaly -- this title's percentage loss occurred in a position that had a far greater impact on standings than the raw numbers would indicate.

I think anyone indicating that the decline had to do with the subject matter of #7 knows very little about how these books ship and sell. It will be interesting to see how many of her long-term fans remain in future issues, as a lot of the "samplers", as is their wont, have already moved on. That's when we'll find out what the new base level is.

slvn, there are two reasons to assume the drop will continue -- people encouraged to try a book because of strong critical approval don't always stay with it. (Otherwise, Agents of Atlas would be in animation development by now, for one example.) Two, long-term readers who have been with the book during the relaunch -- and there are a lot of us -- may have decided they have crossed the threshold of "this isn't Diana anymore." So, I expect to see further loss as those two trends continue -- but I am not predicting in any way where the new floor will be -- people IN the business for years have gone nuts saying things like, "THIS time, we're gonna do Kate Spencer right, and Manhunter is going to run for years!"

But to say that you don't think it's going to drop anymore -- well, you're assuming that the events of #7 didn't turn off a lot of long-time readers -- I have a 110+ page thread I'd like to show you -- it isn't all people sneering at folks who are disturbed by the turn of events.

[SteveGus]

Indy and Vertigo comics don't need to perform as well as mainstream comics...

Highest ranking Vertigo title was Fairest #1 at #60. It had a good artist, a good cover, and actually looked like it might be fun to read, too. I'm not sure that the Vertigo audience is really capable of sustaining the title as well as the long-term Wonder Woman fans have been.