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  1. #31
    Member Clea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will.S View Post
    As StoneGold has pointed out previously, too late on that one:

    What is going on in this story?

  2. #32
    Senior Member CrazyOldHermit's Avatar
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    Hell no. Psylocke getting race-switched is pretty simple, since the visual differences between the races are pretty small to begin with. Not to mention Psylocke was only around for what, three years before she got race-lifted? Whereas Fury has been kicking ass for half a century.

  3. #33
    Former Lurker Old Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jebsib View Post
    Given how pervasive Samuel L Jackson's image as Nick Fury is now to a new generation, and how Marvel is trying to be 'new reader accessible', would you freak if - like British Psylocke being trapped in the body of someone from another race - Marvel did this to 616 Nick?
    I wouldn't freak, but I'd find it sad, pathetic, and kind of insulting. I would also laugh at the writer and editor who were behind the move, accusing them of using race to show just how PC friendly they are. Isn't it funny in a world where skin color is supposed to be unimportant, people keep making a big deal about changing traditionally white characters into black or other minorities. To me it just smacks of the white man trying to say minorities want to be white by taking over the old identities of well known white people. Laughable.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogerio View Post
    Never.
    There is just one Nick Fury:
    Attachment 91605
    The Hoff is the man! You know, if they put him in blackface makeup, I think I could tolerate the change to a black Nick Fury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clea View Post
    I love Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury in the movies. He's a fantastic actor and I think he does a great job as Fury.
    No, he isn't and no he doesn't. Sam Jackson is a poor actor who has a lot of charisma and strong screen presence... but his acting chops are pretty much limited to him playing every character as Samuel L. Jackson. I was so not impressed with his portrayal of Fury in any of the Avengers movies. Seriously, if they wanted to make Fury black, they should have gotten a talented black actor to play him. Maybe Denzel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Clea View Post
    In the comics...I could go with the traditional look or with them switching to Jackson's image. They're both 'Nick Fury' in my mind. (And to be totally honest, I rather prefer Sam Jackson's looks over the comic book Fury.) I'm not particularly attached to the character though. Long time fans who are very fond of the character might feel differently.
    The only time I approve of changing up a character that drastically is when you actually change who the character is. You want a black Spider-Man, fine... its a different guy behind the mask. Nick Fury isn't a mask, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    Yes. Making Fury black is less obvious than randomly pooping in a black dude to be the new Nick Fury.
    Why is there a need for a new Fury? Why does he have to be black? If its just about the movie thing, then definitely not. They haven't rewritten Heimdall as a black character in the comics, so why should they do the same for Fury?

    Quote Originally Posted by CTpitch View Post
    I'm glad I live in a century where Blackness is a marketing ploy
    Right? Preach on, man. Preach on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cap10kirk View Post
    Don't change Nick. Just create some interesting characters who are black.
    Seriously. And anytime anyone points out that black characters aren't successful, like Falcon who's been around forever but can't rate his own solo title, or typical "angry black" characters like Rage, I have to wonder... are they trying to make black characters that aren't interesting or just don't give most of them a chance? Seems pretty insulting for them to all but admit that the only way to make a popular black character is to transform a well-known white one.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    Absolutely not!

    And honestly, I'm not even that big of a Samuel Jackson fan.
    I bet you couldn't tell, but neither am I.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Moriarty's Avatar
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    honestly, i'm surprised 616 Fury hasn't been replaced or ethno-switched yet. i expect his son to replace him at some point in the near future though.

  5. #35
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moriarty View Post
    honestly, i'm surprised 616 Fury hasn't been replaced or ethno-switched yet. i expect his son to replace him at some point in the near future though.
    he can't. Daisy Johnson (no relation) already replaced ol' Nick.
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyOldHermit View Post
    Hell no. Psylocke getting race-switched is pretty simple, since the visual differences between the races are pretty small to begin with. Not to mention Psylocke was only around for what, three years before she got race-lifted? Whereas Fury has been kicking ass for half a century.
    twelve years
    I'm a bumblebee. I'm a bee and I need to get back to the hive.

  7. #37
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Sparky View Post
    I wouldn't freak, but I'd find it sad, pathetic, and kind of insulting. I would also laugh at the writer and editor who were behind the move, accusing them of using race to show just how PC friendly they are. Isn't it funny in a world where skin color is supposed to be unimportant, people keep making a big deal about changing traditionally white characters into black or other minorities. To me it just smacks of the white man trying to say minorities want to be white by taking over the old identities of well known white people. Laughable.


    The Hoff is the man! You know, if they put him in blackface makeup, I think I could tolerate the change to a black Nick Fury.


    No, he isn't and no he doesn't. Sam Jackson is a poor actor who has a lot of charisma and strong screen presence... but his acting chops are pretty much limited to him playing every character as Samuel L. Jackson. I was so not impressed with his portrayal of Fury in any of the Avengers movies. Seriously, if they wanted to make Fury black, they should have gotten a talented black actor to play him. Maybe Denzel...


    The only time I approve of changing up a character that drastically is when you actually change who the character is. You want a black Spider-Man, fine... its a different guy behind the mask. Nick Fury isn't a mask, though.


    Why is there a need for a new Fury? Why does he have to be black? If its just about the movie thing, then definitely not. They haven't rewritten Heimdall as a black character in the comics, so why should they do the same for Fury?


    Right? Preach on, man. Preach on.


    Seriously. And anytime anyone points out that black characters aren't successful, like Falcon who's been around forever but can't rate his own solo title, or typical "angry black" characters like Rage, I have to wonder... are they trying to make black characters that aren't interesting or just don't give most of them a chance? Seems pretty insulting for them to all but admit that the only way to make a popular black character is to transform a well-known white one.
    personally i think they don't give the ones they have a chance. they are always trying to create new minority characters from scratch when there are already active templates with potential. if they'd focus on some of them the same way as they revamped the cosmic characters, i think there'd be good results.

    an example of what i was getting at. Supreme Power Nighthawk/Kyle Richmond was a black guy and probably one of the better concepts to come out of that comic universe. they retire Kyle Richmond. and they create Joaquin Pennysworth (did they pick that name out of a hat?) to be the new Nighthawk. despite maybe looking cool, he's unlikely to be picked up by anyone else. and i imagine that many of Kyle Richmond's fans were displeased by the switch. it was done in a way that clearly pointed to Kyle being a loser.

    but what gets me about this is that, if they were going to do it, it would have been easy enough to use someone like Dwayne Taylor instead of creating a brand new character. why Dwayne? because he has the skillset, the experience, and a similar m.o. to Kyle Richmond (both universe versions). plus he was in need of a new name. 'Nighthawk' is not a huge leap from the often-mocked 'Night Thrasher.' instead, they kill Kyle. try to replace him with his loser brother. forget about him. create Joaquin. shuffle him off to limbo. and then create a few more martial artist black guys (Prodigy and his twin Power Man). i actually like the new Power Man but i doubt their willingness to push him.

    and instead of killing Bill Foster to introduce his nephew Tom (i pray that they picked that name out of a hat), why not run with the poorly named Rage? Elvin (wow, that's also an unfortunate name) has the experience and, in at least one write-up, was going to be given an interest in science. it would have been easy enough to retroactively insert a mentorship role between Bill and Elvin. or if not Rage, then there are other unused characters out there; maybe one of those depowered mutants.
    Last edited by Monty_Cristo; 04-12-2012 at 07:18 PM.
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  8. #38
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    have him start using a black LMD and then have him make up some story about why he's black. whilst the real reason is that he's on a top secret mission

  9. #39
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1505627 View Post
    have him start using a black LMD and then have him make up some story about why he's black. whilst the real reason is that he's on a top secret mission
    he has a black LMD. he used it to meet up with Daisy Johnson during Secret Invasion.
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  10. #40
    Former Lurker Old Sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monty_Cristo View Post
    personally i think they don't give the ones they have a chance. they are always trying to create new minority characters from scratch when there are already active templates with potential. if they'd focus on some of them the same way as they revamped the cosmic characters, i think there'd be good results.

    an example of what i was getting at. Supreme Power Nighthawk/Kyle Richmond was a black guy and probably one of the better concepts to come out of that comic universe. they retire Kyle Richmond. and they create Joaquin Pennysworth (did they pick that name out of a hat?) to be the new Nighthawk. despite maybe looking cool, he's unlikely to be picked up by anyone else. and i imagine that many of Kyle Richmond's fans were displeased by the switch. it was done in a way that clearly pointed to Kyle being a loser.

    but what gets me about this is that, if they were going to do it, it would have been easy enough to use someone like Dwayne Taylor instead of creating a brand new character. why Dwayne? because he has the skillset, the experience, and a similar m.o. to Kyle Richmond (both universe versions). plus he was in need of a new name. 'Nighthawk' is not a huge leap from the often-mocked 'Night Thrasher.' instead, they kill Kyle. try to replace him with his loser brother. forget about him. create Joaquin. shuffle him off to limbo. and then create a few more martial artist black guys (Prodigy and his twin Power Man). i actually like the new Power Man but i doubt their willingness to push him.

    and instead of killing Bill Foster to introduce his nephew Tom (i pray that they picked that name out of a hat), why not run with the poorly named Rage? Elvin (wow, that's also an unfortunate name) has the experience and, in at least one write-up, was going to be given an interest in science. it would have been easy enough to retroactively insert a mentorship role between Bill and Elvin. or if not Rage, then there are other unused characters out there; maybe one of those depowered mutants.
    But why put all the effort into making half-assed characters work when they can simply rewrite an accepted white character as black? Seriously, I agree with you 100%. I just don't think there's enough actual interest at Marvel in making those characters work when they see the easy road to success... and can make a big fuss over how progressive they are for showing skin color doesn't matter despite it being painfully obvious that its all about that.

  11. #41
    Chaotically Neutral Monty_Cristo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Sparky View Post
    But why put all the effort into making half-assed characters work when they can simply rewrite an accepted white character as black? Seriously, I agree with you 100%. I just don't think there's enough actual interest at Marvel in making those characters work when they see the easy road to success... and can make a big fuss over how progressive they are for showing skin color doesn't matter despite it being painfully obvious that its all about that.
    all horribly true. i just think it'd be in their best interests to maybe pick 4 or 5 black, asian, native american, latino, handicapped, LGBT, etc characters and develop the hell out of them; as if they were working on Captain America, Iron Man, or Thor. there's gotta be a good hook for Black Panther that no one has tried (although i've enjoyed most of the BP i've read). Monica Rambeau represents a criminally overlooked demographic. she's basically the only superpowered black female that isn't more associated with the x-gene. American Eagle seemed to be popular. Shang Chi has been popular.
    60% percent of the time, Ant-Man beats Doom every time

  12. #42
    Former Lurker Old Sparky's Avatar
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    ...not just the only superpowered black female that isn't more associated with the x-gene, but one that also led the Avengers for a period of time and did it pretty well. And what happens to her? Her codename gets taken back by the original's son... and when she comes up with another, then he later swipes that one too. No respect for Monica

  13. #43
    File Clerk of MI13 The Sword Is Drawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jebsib View Post
    Given how pervasive Samuel L Jackson's image as Nick Fury is now to a new generation, and how Marvel is trying to be 'new reader accessible', would you freak if - like British Psylocke being trapped in the body of someone from another race - Marvel did this to 616 Nick?
    If it was done as badly as Psylocke then Hell No. That mistake has given the character SO many problems...

    But in all honestly I don't think it's neccesary. 616 Nick Fury is a distinctive character with a very specific history. Body swapping him would detract from the characters history a fair bit. I don't thionk it would be received very well, either.
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  14. #44
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Default Would you be OK if Marvel race-switched Nick Fury (a la Psylocke)?

    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    j
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  15. #45
    nice - man britishmixedwhiskey's Avatar
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    As British MIXED whiskey (think about it) my answer is no why would anyone be OK if a character's ethnicity ( i dont say race as where all part of the Human race and the thing that differentiates me from my lighter skinned family members is the melanin which is inside but this isnt a thread about language so i digress) was changed years and years after they where created for no apparant reason ? At the end of the day im sure this thread is about "drumming up a debate" or whatever but it seems to me to just bait people to reveal their predjudices and whatnot .... that's not a criticisim per se but just my view . I'll put it this way if Luke Cage or Kasper Cole or Neal Shaara where "race-switched" as you call it i wouldent be happy just as i wouldent if it where the case for Nick Fury . Lets not forget people who dont read comics and particulally Movie goers know Nick Fury as Samuel Jackson ... yes he is of african american origin but why does it matter ? In 616 Nick Fury is a caucasian male and thats great in Ulitimate he's not and thats Great . At the end of the day lets put this in context if writers or editors want to do something they will .... if they want to change the Melanin Levels in a Fictional Comic Character then so be it ...i personally wouldent be a fan of the idea but cest la vie .
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