The DC Numbers/Estimates Mega Thread

[The Animal Man]

I haven't read that (it's possible I have before though...) but in general I find the Nielson ratings hugely inaccurate and a bit pointless. The fact that TV shows in this day and age live or die based on these ratings truly boggles the sane rational person's mind.

i still don't understand how the nielsen ratings work...it's just insane

[Paul Newell]

I'm not saying they didn't do any, but given how much of the crowd on opening day was already fanboys, they obviously didn't do enough, or it wasn't done the right way.

There needed to be at least 5 times as much advertising, and the ads needed to tell people WHY they should want to pick up the comics, not just that they were there.

And what, spend 5 times the amount of budget? I do work in advertising...That stuff only stretches so far, every company has to prioritise where the money is spent and DC had the plus of using Warner Brothers owned vehicles to spruik their product. And if showing ads in cinema's before "summer blockbuster movies" and pushing product in magazines like Time and Entertainment Weekly and major newspapers, then I don't know what could be bigger. Painting it on the moon?

And telling people why they should want comics? To read of course, anything else and you're just aiming them at the existing market.

[glennsim]

And what, spend 5 times the amount of budget? I do work in advertising...That stuff only stretches so far, every company has to prioritise where the money is spent and DC had the plus of using Warner Brothers owned vehicles to spruik their product. And if showing ads in cinema's before "summer blockbuster movies" and pushing product in magazines like Time and Entertainment Weekly and major newspapers, then I don't know what could be bigger. Painting it on the moon?

And telling people why they should want comics? To read of course, anything else and you're just aiming them at the existing market.

Apparently however many ads they ran, or movies the ran the commercial before, they needed to do more of it. I don't necessarily blame DC but Warners or whomever set the budget.

I also used to work in marketing and the best advertising doesn't just tell you what the product is, it appeals to a need. Throwing a bunch of pictures of characters at me and telling me there is a new 52 books doesn't tell me anything. Tell me why I should read these instead of other things. At least put a voiceover in to explain the details a little more. Tell me that if I enjoy Superman and Batman in the movies and on TV, I can get new adventures every month of those characters. Clarify that I can get in on the ground floor with the new #1s. Give me some details about the digital option.

For that matter, ditch the mass marketing altogether and put that money into a direct mail campaign where you mail the sampler to people who are known readers of sci-fi and fantasy novels. Don't bother trying to attract the average person - go after nerdom more specifically.

[chastmastr]

Nope. But then they've never followed the comics faithfully. . . . They're using it as a gateway to the comics, not a representation of the comics.

I'm profoundly glad it's not a representation of the new 52. I just wish things were the other way around, and that the new 52 were more like the DC Nation animated series.

[Master X]

"Looking around, people have been putting the lapsed reader percentage at 25%, that's my bad.

It would be interesting to see how many people dropped DC Comics entirely. My feeling is it would be negligable as any massive drop in long time readers would have been naturally reflected in the sales somewhat."

At the beginning of the reboot I almost completely dropped DC. I chose to get all 52 just to prove to myself whether I should or not. I'd say I read 3/4 of them before I just couldn't read anymore. By month 2 I was just down to all the Batfamily/GL family titles. Right now it's just Batman/Batman and Robin/Batwoman/Nightwing/Batwing/Dark Knight/Detective and all 4 GL titles. After 9s it will be just Batman/B&R/Batwoman/Batman INC and the 4 GL titles. (NOTE: I ALSO GET DC TITLES THAT ARE NOT IN THE NU LINE. DCU Online. It became very subpar after it came back rom its break. Brave and the Bold. Cancelled at 16. Ordered for the Robins' issue, BUT NEVER GOT IT. Batman Beyond. Love the bumper issues, plus no NU nonsense. SMALLVILLE. Can't wait!). Anyway, as soon as Batman INC Morrison's Batman is finished, Batman comics are officially over for me. The pointless changes and non-existence of all my favorite batfmaily members has driven me away. As for GL titles, as soon as Johns arc is over (will it EVER be?) I'm gone from those too. I personally just invested way too much energy in the previous DCU to be able to put up with this, what stings worse is that most title sales other than the top lot are lower than before the reboot. Destroying all that history for a few months of boosted sales on most titles?

[Paul Newell]

what stings worse is that most title sales other than the top lot are lower than before the reboot.

No they're not. 2/3 to 3/4 quarters are stilling selling above. That's not "most"....I know you like to say that in every post you make on the topic, but it's just not true.

[Master X]

^Every post I make on the topic...?

Yes, I over-exagerated. (I thought that was clear...)

[Paul Newell]

No, you state it as if it was a fact...Something I've seen you state as a fact several times. I've replied at least twice saying that it's false. Why overexaggerate something like that? Unless the intention is to mislead?

[kelly_warrior_princess]

I'm going to be one of those people who claim it as a "giant failure." Of course this would be predicated on what victory coniditons one is setting for the reboot

Bring in new readers = faliure
Bring in lapsed readers = minor success, but unlikely to continue (there's a reason why they lapsed)
Keep old readers without significant loss = unknown as it was specifically stopped from gettting that data
Increase of sales figure to peak sales figures of past 5 years = failure
Increase of sales figure to peak sales figures of previous years = negligable success, but possibly turn into failure with the next 6 months.
keep increased sales figures after 6 months = failure
stabilised market after 6 months = failure

Over all this reboot looks to have cost DC a lot & while there was the expected boost to the numbers for a short amount of time, i wouldn't call it a huge success though given the still plummeting numbers & the fact that while its numbers where higher then the previous year at the same time, it was still considerably lower then it was 5 years ago.

No matter which way you cut it, the DC reboot is not doing well. Its doing marginally better then it was last year, but really thats like taking a swipe at low hanging fruit. I'd say all things considered the reboot has been & looks to continue to be the epitome of the "false economy" business model. But only time will tell.

[vampiric_cannibal]

I got a writer's response to this: DC discovered that they sold comics to middle aged men. Their response is to sell more comics to middle aged men.

[chastmastr]

I got a writer's response to this: DC discovered that they sold comics to middle aged men. Their response is to sell more comics to middle aged men.

And I'm tempted to say that this doesn't say much for DC's perception of middle aged men. :(

[CagedLeo730]

I'm going to be one of those people who claim it as a "giant failure." Of course this would be predicated on what victory coniditons one is setting for the reboot

Bring in new readers = faliure
Bring in lapsed readers = minor success, but unlikely to continue (there's a reason why they lapsed)
Keep old readers without significant loss = unknown as it was specifically stopped from gettting that data
Increase of sales figure to peak sales figures of past 5 years = failure
Increase of sales figure to peak sales figures of previous years = negligable success, but possibly turn into failure with the next 6 months.
keep increased sales figures after 6 months = failure
stabilised market after 6 months = failure

Over all this reboot looks to have cost DC a lot & while there was the expected boost to the numbers for a short amount of time, i wouldn't call it a huge success though given the still plummeting numbers & the fact that while its numbers where higher then the previous year at the same time, it was still considerably lower then it was 5 years ago.

No matter which way you cut it, the DC reboot is not doing well. Its doing marginally better then it was last year, but really thats like taking a swipe at low hanging fruit. I'd say all things considered the reboot has been & looks to continue to be the epitome of the "false economy" business model. But only time will tell.

With the 2nd wave and Before Watchmen the next few months will see an increase in sales. Each wave will cause a spike. The sales won't return to anywhere near the highs of 5 years ago if the economy stalls.

[timeismoney]

As a black person that read comic its sad to see that more don't read comic, the problem is comic company don't look to want that money which would IMHO put the comic business over the top. I may be wrong but hey that is what Madden is for you see all the money it makes every year because everybody play it that is the different between comic and games which I love both.

[Master X]

^Before I continue speaking let me say something; Paul, I think you've been conversing with someone else on another topic and have them confused with me. Or this happened like 3+ months ago and I have forgot.

DC's top lot of titles are selling good, but face it; as a whole (52) it's not exactly a giant bunch. Most other than those are just doing average. And yes, quite a big chunk are doing poor. Maybe we just have different definitions here? If at issue 6 (especially with all the extra advertising/reboot 1s factor) any title doing just under/just over 20,000 I consider poor. Don't you...?

[kelly_warrior_princess]

With the 2nd wave and Before Watchmen the next few months will see an increase in sales.

I'm not expecting nearly as much of a sales boost as you are evidentally.