Secret Avengers #25 *Spoilers*

[SomeBodyAtCBR]

I agree that this series so far hasn't been as top-notch as Remender's X-Force, which started off with an incredible arc which could be why. As far as Avenger stories go, however, this one is by far the best one out so I'm content. I think after AvX the series will pick up when Remender can be unabridged.

[Moriarty]

i was so hoping for a re-enactment of X-Men 2 but with Flash and the other secret avengers converging upon the X-institute.

heh, that would be pretty cool.

[dbcb314]

I like the characters, I am just not into Adaptoids and such.

UXF jumped into an Apocalypse story. Huge difference.

[Monty_Cristo]

I like the characters, I am just not into Adaptoids and such.

UXF jumped into an Apocalypse story. Huge difference.

what's the difference between Apocalypse and an adaptoid? Father even has 4 horsemen (Ideal, Origin, Swine, and Urn).

[motteditor]

I enjoyed it. First non-Avengers Academy issue in a long time that I actually want to reread.

Heck, I even thought the one panel with Venom with a bunch of guns was a neat shot, though I'd still prefer he weren't in this comic.

Not sure why Hawkeye's so fixated on keeping quiet, but doesn't bother me too much. I did enjoy seeing Jan being mentioned. Just because she's not good enough for Bendis doesn't mean the character doesn't have fans and isn't a critical part of Avengers lore.

[nojarama]

LOVED the issue. Can't wait to see what happens next!

[Panic]

Not sure why Hawkeye's so fixated on keeping quiet, but doesn't bother me too much.

I assume it's just that he doesn't want to start a mass panic back on Earth. The fact that Remender has Hawkeye so insistent on no-one outside the team being told makes me think someone might break ranks and do just that... probably Captain Britain, as he and Clint have been so at odds. I can't think of another reason why Remender would make such a big thing of keeping it a secret.

[Monty_Cristo]

I assume it's just that he doesn't want to start a mass panic back on Earth. The fact that Remender has Hawkeye so insistent on no-one outside the team being told makes me think someone might break ranks and do just that... probably Captain Britain, as he and Clint have been so at odds. I can't think of another reason why Remender would make such a big thing of keeping it a secret.

embarrassment. he's being written as insecure enough to shout at everyone he's leading. i imagine that it would be a huge blow to his pride if he had to explain to Captain America that he got his old WWII buddy decommissioned.

[The Black Guardian]

what's the difference between Apocalypse and an adaptoid? Father even has 4 horsemen (Ideal, Origin, Swine, and Urn).

Adaptoids, at worst, are infinitely more interesting, imo.

I assume it's just that he doesn't want to start a mass panic back on Earth.

No one's even considering putting this on CNN, but that explanation does not logically work for not telling Cap and Avengers leadership. After just dealing with a similar situation in Secret Invasion, this seems completely moronic... to the point of being criminally negligent.

[avenging son]

Adaptoids, at worst, are infinitely more interesting, imo.

No one's even considering putting this on CNN, but that explanation does not logically work for not telling Cap and Avengers leadership. After just dealing with a similar situation in Secret Invasion, this seems completely moronic... to the point of being criminally negligent.

yeah, I dont get that either, seems like Cap would be the one he would trust with this info.

also, Hammond killed or nearly killed AGAIN? cmon, he was the main reason I was reading this comic. bring him back soon!

we gotta do more invaders now!

[OkieDokiLoki]

yeah, I dont get that either, seems like Cap would be the one he would trust with this info.

also, Hammond killed or nearly killed AGAIN? cmon, he was the main reason I was reading this comic. bring him back soon!

we gotta do more invaders now!

Even tho WWII has been over for a long time now an Invaders comic would still be awesome, lol.

[Prince Of Orphans]

also, Hammond killed or nearly killed AGAIN? cmon, he was the main reason I was reading this comic. bring him back soon!

I agree, it's getting a little ridiculous.

[JaggedFel]

what's the difference between Apocalypse and an adaptoid? Father even has 4 horsemen (Ideal, Origin, Swine, and Urn).

Apocalypse usually converts a few prominent x-men for his team.

I am confused though is this book suppose to convince me that Hawkeye is a good leader or that he sucks at leading because I am really feeling that he is just not cutout for leading a covert ops team.

[jackolover]

he hits on her in his own series, as well. i'm cool with it. kind of suprised that she throws the attention back his way. she hasn't shown much interest in anyone else. i thought she was kind of obsessed with Sigmund. Hammond seems to be the biggest threat to Father. so he'll probably be back into fighting form by the end of the arc. i wonder what Father was talking about when he said that one of the Council prepares to betray them. is he talking about the Doombot?

That boat has sailed as of spoilers:

Fearless # 12

end of spoilers. She is now free again.

[jackolover]

I hope the father's traitor is cyborg Jan. that way, Hank gets a cyborg version of his lost love. I have a feeling he'd get pretty off on that!

But really, remember back in AA when he was trying to build a machine to get Jan back? Maybe he could bring her soul back and put it in this body. I don't know how she'd like that, but it's about time she comes back.

Why does Hawkeye even think that was Janet Van Dyne? All the Descendants are just Cyborgs or Adaptoids or LMD's. That little melodrama between Jan and Clint was illogical, unless it was playing into Clints emotional investment in Janets likeness, (like George Costanza with his mothers doll), and guilt associated with killing the Wasp cyborg with a knife. If that was the case, then we're seeing Clint's mental sickness stemming from his 2 deaths at the hand of the Scarlet Witch. Clint wanted to find Wanda to get revenge and had sex with her instead; he wants the SA to not tell anyone about this missions fallout, (Torches destruction); he attacked Norman Osborn; and he is now willing to kill. (As well as the little mistake he made about the Cyborg being the real Janet).

i'm glad you mentioned that. i too really appreciated Hammond's old fashioned vocabulary. it makes him stand out a bit more. one thing i haven't quite figured out. is Father supposed to be a Descendant? the flashback pointed to him being human. and when they were talking about him surviving Deadpool, he apparently had to clone a new body and hyper-age it. there's so much that i'd like to see explained. are the Descendants exactly like Hammond or do they have actual flesh? i also wonder if the new Ant-Man is going to sacrifice himself to save Torch. there's not much of an expression on his face as he watches over the stasis tube. but maybe there's enough respect for the first artificial intelligence to act.

I have to say, from what we have been given here, there doesn't appear to be any difference between these descendants and Ellis' robot rebellion from the previous arc. Why do two Robot insurrections practically one after the other? Ellis' robot rebellion was neutralized pretty comprehensively. Maybe Remender wanted to show there was a robot rebellion that wasn't completely neutralized?

I think Father is meant to be a Human being. At least, the flashback suggests he is but that doesn't mean he hasn't "upgraded" himself. Plus, he is/was attached to the Weapon Plus program so he might have quite a bit of tech about and things like cloning and cybernetics might be common place for him.

Do you think Weapons Plus is still in operation and Father is still part of it? Also, does anybody know where Descendant City is located?