Mythbusters: New52 Diana is Weak

[Outside_85]

Neither has needed to fly because the author controls all the elements. While Clark is hopping about, maybe someone fell to their doom because he couldn't reach them in time? That didn't happen simply because the author pulls all the strings, not because of any merit the characters have.

Correct, perhaps when Diana has to fight a harpy or wrestle a pegasus to the ground you will see her fly?

[Dr. Hurt]

1) I wouldnt use JL Dark as an arguement. Diana barely had a cameo and it was a #1 issue at the start of the new DCU. I'm sure there was a lot of confusion going around at the time, and i doubt the editorial was too pedantic about WW's 2-3 panel appearence. Even if she outright flew in JLD, it doesnt mean that she can fly now. JL and her main book carry more gravity in that respect.

2) Even when she could fly, there was this tendency to ground her during fights and have her fight on the ground, like a female Hercules. In fact 90% of her fights are grounded and she only uses flight to travel big distances.

3) Non flight makes fights more interesting and showcases her fighting skills. Her fight vs the Furies is a testament to that (see video below). Had she taken to the skies the fight wouldnt have been as technical, she would have just zoomed around punching people or lifting them up and dropping them. Grounding her forces her to use combat skills, use the environment, and use her head. Flying is too hax, and since it doesnt really suit the character, why bother?

4) Superman is based on space sci-fi, WW is based on mythology. Flight suits Superman but not her.


But no, dont listen to reason or internal logic, just keep whining that your waifu got depowered but Superman didnt. As if she had heat vision, freeze breath, or X ray vision all this time. She wasnt on par with him to begin with. Besides, Superman used to be able to push entire planets, but not anymore. He's been depowered as well. This is as childish and superficial as it gets.

[Dr. Hurt]

Correct, perhaps when Diana has to fight a harpy or wrestle a pegasus to the ground you will see her fly?

Or she can use her head, the environment, the lasso (which seems to have limitless length on occasion), and the rest of her powers. She could jump from wall to wall (spiderman style but with burrying her hands in the concrete Hulk style instead of spiderman's gluey hands) and keep up with any flying enemy. She could engage in Olympic sports like pole vaulting and disk (any object would do) throwing, etc. And what do you know, she already did pole vault during the fight with the centaurs.

Here's another animated fight. CBR wont let me put another one in the previous post.

[Maximum Impact]

1) I wouldnt use JL Dark as an arguement. Diana barely had a cameo and it was a #1 issue at the start of the new DCU. I'm sure there was a lot of confusion going around at the time, and i doubt the editorial was too pedantic about WW's 2-3 panel appearence. Even if she outright flew in JLD, it doesnt mean that she can fly now. JL and her main book carry more gravity in that respect.

2) Even when she could fly, there was this tendency to ground her during fights and have her fight on the ground, like a female Hercules. In fact 90% of her fights are grounded and she only uses flight to travel big distances.

3) Non flight makes fights more interesting and showcases her fighting skills. Her fight vs the Furies is a testament to that (see video below). Had she taken to the skies the fight wouldnt have been as technical, she would have just zoomed around punching people or lifting them up and dropping them. Grounding her forces her to use combat skills, use the environment, and use her head. Flying is too hax, and since it doesnt really suit the character, why bother?

4) Superman is based on space sci-fi, WW is based on mythology. Flight suits Superman but not her.


But no, dont listen to reason or internal logic, just keep whining that your waifu got depowered but Superman didnt. As if she had heat vision, freeze breath, or X ray vision all this time. She wasnt on par with him to begin with. Besides, Superman used to be able to push entire planets, but not anymore. He's been depowered as well. This is as childish and superficial as it gets.

I call bull$#*t on all that, without flight we get images like this...





With flight we get this...

[WhitOro]

With flight we get this...

Dr Hurt posted 6 minutes total of awesome swords and hand-to-hand fights, you gave us 20 seconds of Wonder Woman dodging bullets and then 20 more seconds of her beating a guy without superpowers in what was practically a hand to hand combat that could have took place on top of a building.
Yeah, you really proved your point.

Here, I'll help you:


Still, here flying is just an excuse to not have a background. Everything they're doing, they could be doing it on the ground, but there you have to use something else other than blue. Plus, is still shorter than the two other fights.

[Rob_Olivera]

Why is this thing that when Superman is the air and she's clearly at his side doing the exact same thing he's doing, he's the only flying while she's just... there?
Like JL7, he's flying into battle with a fist in front of him, classic Superman, she's at her side, doing the exact same thing, at the exact same height, with the exact same pose, yet she's the one "jumping".
They flew inside the vortex.





Oh god, what is it with this argument? I can't stand it, sorry.
Character are not alive, if the author doesn't make them do something, they don't do anything. If Azzarello didn't make he do anything, Wonder Woman would be still sleeping in London while Zola gets butchered.
Hephe looks like the kind of guy that would jump against something, he's bulky, monsterous and uses an hammer, he looks like the stereotypical barbarian. I don't see him thinking twice about something like this.



Ok then, there's no real point of discussing preference.

Like I said in a previous post (regarding the flying)... I would not go using external reference of Wonder Woman appearances to prove any kind of point as to whether she can fly clearly or not. So far what i've seen at JLD, and JL is a cookie cutter wonder woman that hasn't needed any reference to whats happening in the main book to write. They're just using Wonder Woman and writing whatever they want. She appears to be just a costume in their books. In the main title she hasn't clearly flown and the other books would be wise in taking a peek in the main title before writing her.

I'm not saying she can NOT fly.. maybe she can.. but the vagueness prevails in the WW comic.

[WhitOro]

Like I said in a previous post (regarding the flying)... I would not go using external reference of Wonder Woman appearances to prove any kind of point as to whether she can fly clearly or not.

I would argue that this is a share universe so what's happening outisde the main title count, but ok, I understand your point.

I call bull$#*t on all that, without flight we get images like this...

You also get this:


Comic-scan from the same time period, when Diana couldn't fly. What a surprise, superheroes are not pokemon, it's not water beats fire and fire beats rock or whatever. If she's really unable to flight, well, she's been a competent powerful and loved superhero from 1942 to 1984 with that handicap.

[Rob_Olivera]

I would argue that this is a share universe so what's happening outisde the main title count, but ok, I understand your point.



You also get this:


Comic-scan from the same time period, when Diana couldn't fly. What a surprise, superheroes are not pokemon, it's not water beats fire and fire beats rock or whatever. If she's really unable to flight, well, she's been a competent powerful and loved superhero from 1942 to 1984 with that handicap.

I jumped for joy when I saw her beat the crap out of S.Swan in that comic!! LOL. Should've beat the crap out of her like that from the beginning! I hate pulling punches!

[Reginleif]

I would argue that this is a share universe so what's happening outisde the main title count, but ok, I understand your point.



You also get this:


Comic-scan from the same time period, when Diana couldn't fly. What a surprise, superheroes are not pokemon, it's not water beats fire and fire beats rock or whatever. If she's really unable to flight, well, she's been a competent powerful and loved superhero from 1942 to 1984 with that handicap.

>fire beats rock

[Outside_85]

I call bull$#*t on all that, without flight we get images like this...

Whats the point of that one? Diana was trying to pull Strife down to the ground (like everyone seems to try when faced with a giant foe) but gets pulled into the air instead because Strife happens to be strong enough lift her?
What was flight going to change here?

[Maximum Impact]

Dr Hurt posted 6 minutes total of awesome swords and hand-to-hand fights, you gave us 20 seconds of Wonder Woman dodging bullets and then 20 more seconds of her beating a guy without superpowers in what was practically a hand to hand combat that could have took place on top of a building.
Yeah, you really proved your point.

Here, I'll help you:


Still, here flying is just an excuse to not have a background. Everything they're doing, they could be doing it on the ground, but there you have to use something else other than blue. Plus, is still shorter than the two other fights.

Oh I'm sorry I wasn't aware there was a time requirement on videos posted. I'll have to console myself in knowledge my video proved the usefulness of Diana's ability to fly. During their fight did you hear a mechanical noise? That was to show Owlman's suit was overcoming Diana's natural super-strength, she defeated him using her superior fighting skills, though he was hardly "a guy without superpowers". Of course if she hadn't been able to fly there would be no way for her to reach his plane in the first place, let alone kick his ass and steal it. Now the fight could have possibly taken place on a building if you had written "Justice League: Crisis On Two Earths", the fact remains however it took place in midair.

I thank you for your attempt to help my argument, although it would have been far more effective if your video actually played. Get it together WhitOro.

[Maximum Impact]

Whats the point of that one? Diana was trying to pull Strife down to the ground (like everyone seems to try when faced with a giant foe) but gets pulled into the air instead because Strife happens to be strong enough lift her?
What was flight going to change here?

She wouldn't be dangling there like a Christmas-tree ornament for one. For two she'd be able to fly around Strife's neck a few times with the lasso and strangle her to the ground.

[WhitOro]

Oh I'm sorry I wasn't aware there was a time requirement on videos posted.

There’s not a time requirement, but what you were trying to prove was how much more awesome Diana is when flying compared to Diana on the ground. And again, to prove that you gave us 20 seconds of bullet-dodging vs 6 minutes of highly choreographic ground battles.

I'll have to console myself in knowledge my video proved the usefulness of Diana's ability to fly.

Here’s the thing: I’ve never said that flight is not useful.
I’m against the idea that Diana is weaker or downright helpless if she can’t do it, like you seems so convinced of.
If they removed her superstrenght or her ability to withstand powerful hits I would argue that yes, she would be weaker, but the fact that she needs to buy an airplane ticket to go from London to New York doesn’t make her suck at everything.

I thank you for your attempt to help my argument, although it would have been far more effective if your video actually played. Get it together WhitOro.

There’s still the link. So why don’t you get it together, sir?
Here, the right button does Wonders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEIADT8V7jE

[Outside_85]

She wouldn't be dangling there like a Christmas-tree ornament for one. For two she'd be able to fly around Strife's neck a few times with the lasso and strangle her to the ground.

Yes she would because her flying wouldn't change anything unless she was flying when she went at Strife.
And do what? Kill a God? Very 'WW' of you.

[ascended]

She wouldn't be dangling there like a Christmas-tree ornament for one. For two she'd be able to fly around Strife's neck a few times with the lasso and strangle her to the ground.

Actually, she could have done that anyway.

Ever play tether ball? Same idea.

One can likely assume that Diana was surprised by Strife lifting her off the ground. Or maybe it was part of a plan to get her attention and start a dialogue. Since we didnt actually see how that conflict was resolved, its sort of up in the air.

But had Diana chosen to choke Strife, all she would have needed to do was leap over Strife's shoulder and let momentum carry her around. Such a scene, I think, would have been pretty cool and more interesting than her flying to accomplish the same too. But thats just me.

I also question whether or not choking Strife would have accomplished anything, as she's a god, but thats sort of neither here nor there for the purposes of this discussion.

What is, is the fact that Strife is a god. This was not Giganta Diana was fighting. This was a god. Diana seems to be able to drop their minions fairly easily, but the gods themselves likely go down a little harder. I think we can forgive Diana (and Azzarello) for not pwning Strife like she's a noob.

This said, I dont care much whether she can fly or not. I still like the idea of the stealth jet being used more, but if it turns out that she can still fly, whatever. Her ability to fly is not what I love about the character. And I dont see her loss of the ability as an insult either.