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  1. #16
    Administrator Expletive Deleted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    I really doubt that.spoilers:
    Imagine realizing you'll outlive everyone else except your godson as the world changes about you? There's a tragic element to it and I don't want Ben to be burdened by it.
    end of spoilers
    I'm trying to wrap my head around it and the thought really gnaws at me.
    Just my reading of it, but I think Hickman was going for more of a sentimental tone than a tragic one.
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  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expletive Deleted View Post
    Just my reading of it, but I think Hickman was going for more of a sentimental tone than a tragic one.
    Yeah. I think this issue was more for Reed than Ben. Ben will be fine, even if he's alone. It's Reed who needs to appreciate the limited amount of time he has with the people he loves.

  3. #18
    X-Gene Positive cookepuss's Avatar
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    At the same time, I don't think that anybody has ever really tested Reed's longevity. He won't, apparently, live as long as Ben, but his molecules are far more malleable than a regular human's. He could well live longer than Johnny or Sue, but not Ben.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Yeah. I think this issue was more for Reed than Ben. Ben will be fine, even if he's alone. It's Reed who needs to appreciate the limited amount of time he has with the people he loves.
    Theoretically Reed can live forever as well since Hickman wrote Reed in Ultimates so if you want you can go by that.

  5. #20
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
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    Ewww... The FF living that long is a horrible concept to introduce... This might be the issue that Hickman permanently loses my support.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookepuss View Post
    Yeah. I thought about that too. I was going just on the premise provided by the opening recap, which had to do with Val's 1day/1year cure. Totally possible that he maybe reverted to human form briefly here and there. I don't think that Hickman would've shown it either since that wasn't the point of the issue. I could be wrong, but I don't think other writers have really addressed the issue of Ben's aging before. It was done pretty well here. Again, I wouldn't like to see Ben cured because it's more interesting this way. A humble kid from the wrong side of the tracks becomes something much bigger in the end. It's a pretty inspiring story, even if it also captures the downside of possible immortality.
    Let's agree to never mention that the opening recap says a week per year.
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  7. #22
    on his last warning Ronin1108's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookepuss View Post
    It was a great issue. I really think that Hickman keeps on knocking it out of the park Since there's already a spoiler tag in the title, I'm not going to double cloak here. That said....

    The inner math geek in me is disturbed by one thing though. Thanks to Val, Ben gets to be human one day a year. That means that Ben ages for only one day a year. It's 2012 now. Happy fun math time now.

    Ben & Reed met during college. That means Ben would've been 22 by graduation. Conservatively, let's say that the four of them didn't take their fateful trip til at least 5 years later. That makes Ben 27 when he first became the Thing. Franklin is how old now? 7 or 8? That means that the Fantastic Four have been around for 10 years in the 616. That'd make Ben, chronologically, 37 years old, which seems about right. Ben dies in 6012 and ages only 1 day for every year. That means that he's physically only aged about 11 years. That means, biologically, Ben croaked at the "old" age of 48.

    That kinda bothered me. Not that Ben looked super old, in his rocky form, for 48, but that he was probably only 48 biologically. Maybe 50 if you include all the other times he was in human form. On the upside, the shuttle accident that mutated them probably also saved him from dying young. So, he had a full life and lived to 4,000+ years old, but really died at a biologically younger age.

    Ah, well. Great issue. I'm just being pedantic.
    Maybe he had high cholesterol?? (terrible joke i know lol)

    Quote Originally Posted by cookepuss View Post
    My grandparents are closing in on 90 and they're both still active, not to mention much younger looking. My great grandmother died past the age of 110. My dad's 65 and looks 20+ years younger. I guess I come from a family of Highlanders.

    Personally, I hope that they DON'T find a cure for Ben. For one thing, a happy character is a boring character. Not that he can't be happy sometimes, but there's really no drama in happy ending scenarios. On top of that, in terms of what Hickman set up, just imagine how different 6012 would be if Ben had been cured. All of those times he fought off invasions. All of those kids he inspired. Keeping Franklin company, and probably tied to his humanity, for thousands of years. There's a trade off to be made.

    You can't think that all of those years were sad for Ben either. It must've been difficult for him at first, watching everybody he loved die. Forming emotional attachments must've been difficult. At the same time, who's to say that he never go involved with somebody who also lived for many years. There's a lot of stuff that could've happened off panel. That Ben was a little sad and missed the old days near the end was not so surprising. Here was a kid from Yancy Street who turned his life around and not only became one of the greatest heroes, but also their oldest. The idol of millions? Try the idol of BILLIONS (or more).

    We see Ben kinda sad, in that old man sorta way, by the end. However, I like to think that he had a happy life. After all, he did tell those FF kids to enjoy life and cherish every moment. Can't help but think that he was speaking from experience.
    Exactly, and I think Reed picked up on it damn near immediately thankfully (he's usually clueless to these things lol). I think that as I said before is part of the charactet, and his mythos. It's cool to see a glimpse of his end point, sorta like knowing how Iceman and Spidey have always been shown to be KEY heroes in the future
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  8. #23
    on his last warning Ronin1108's Avatar
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    ...after reading the comments, I'll just say Jonathan F***IN' HICKMAN is the BEST writer out right now PERIOD!!
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  9. #24
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Is the future exhibited in this issue a confirmed future timeline of Earth-616 or an alternate future that could or could not happen like Earth X?
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  10. #25
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookepuss View Post
    It was a great issue. I really think that Hickman keeps on knocking it out of the park Since there's already a spoiler tag in the title, I'm not going to double cloak here. That said....

    The inner math geek in me is disturbed by one thing though. Thanks to Val, Ben gets to be human one day a year. That means that Ben ages for only one day a year. It's 2012 now. Happy fun math time now.

    Ben & Reed met during college. That means Ben would've been 22 by graduation. Conservatively, let's say that the four of them didn't take their fateful trip til at least 5 years later. That makes Ben 27 when he first became the Thing. Franklin is how old now? 7 or 8? That means that the Fantastic Four have been around for 10 years in the 616. That'd make Ben, chronologically, 37 years old, which seems about right. Ben dies in 6012 and ages only 1 day for every year. That means that he's physically only aged about 11 years. That means, biologically, Ben croaked at the "old" age of 48.

    That kinda bothered me. Not that Ben looked super old, in his rocky form, for 48, but that he was probably only 48 biologically. Maybe 50 if you include all the other times he was in human form. On the upside, the shuttle accident that mutated them probably also saved him from dying young. So, he had a full life and lived to 4,000+ years old, but really died at a biologically younger age.

    Ah, well. Great issue. I'm just being pedantic.
    It's actually one WEEK every year, not one day. So Ben would age about 77 years during those 4,000, making him a good bit over 100.

    The weirdest thing for me was the rock-beard. But, despite it making no sense, was still somehow awesome.

    And after the epic conclusion to his long running story, Hickman proved that he can also do great done-in-one issues. This was simply great.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Is the future exhibited in this issue a confirmed future timeline of Earth-616 or an alternate future that could or could not happen like Earth X?
    Is any future ever "confirmed"? At the beginning of the issue, Richards Sr mentions that they've altered future history with their recent actions. I think it's safe to assume that the futures shown here are possible futures assuming there's no other attempt to alter it again. Which we know is pretty much going to happen. Much like Days of Future Past or the future Bishop comes from, the actions taken in the present negate those possible futures.
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  12. #27
    GotG: Needs More Cosmo CHOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    Ewww... The FF living that long is a horrible concept to introduce... This might be the issue that Hickman permanently loses my support.

    I think the introduction of the Future Foundation make this more plausible. They're devoted to science, and ultimately their discoveries would lead to peace and scientific discoveries that benefit the world as a whole.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHOX View Post
    I think the introduction of the Future Foundation make this more plausible. They're devoted to science, and ultimately their discoveries would lead to peace and scientific discoveries that benefit the world as a whole.
    Shouldn't have said that. Now theres going to be a 3 page post discussion complaining about how if the "FF is so smart why aren't they spreading their cures and miracle machines to help the planet and starving populace."

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Inevitably, with a story like this, I couldn't help but remember two other scenes in previous issues. The first is in Waid's run where, after the FF storm Heaven to bring Ben back, God shows them a sketch as they are in advanced years. The second is in McDuffie's run, where after a future incarnation of the FF and Doom meet the present FF, the future FF tell the present FF that they will have more trials and tribulations, save the world (and more) numerous times, and that they'll leave the world a better place. Since both are so general, there's no conflict between what all three authors wrote.
    They said in the beginning, all this after they re-wrote the future, so anything goes at this point either way. And anything could go a different way as well, because who says the future doesn't get re-written again?
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  15. #30
    Critical Critic nosocialize100's Avatar
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    I got the impression that this was Hickman's last little hurrah. Probably a little love letter that will be forgotten.

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