My Opinion - Take It Or Leave It!

[Paradox]

I'm neither happy nor unhappy (haven't bought any comics in 6-7 years, but that's mostly a financial decision of a poor broke comic junkie). But, vis a vis the public's opinion of them, there's nothing you can do, so why worry about it? I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of my reading material. It's only important that I like it.

[Mr. Rice]

Is it perhaps the content that causes them to be dismissed as childish or nerdy? There's so much good stuff, but why does it always get dismissed as childish? I remember a friend of mine came over and noticed I had an issue of Planetary in my hand. He's like "Planetary? Is that a magazine about astronomy?" I went on to say that it's a comic, a particularly awesome one. I talked about how it's a comic about pop culture and comic history...using a comparison I remember John Cassaday once used. It's like X-Files meets Astro City. This was a particularly cool issue. I had all the individual issues of Planetary, save for issue 20 which I managed to find at a very recent convention. I flipped through the issue, showing him various images and what the story was about. He asked me a few questions about the subtext and if not knowing about what the issue was homaging, would anyone get lost? I said, well the story itself is really good and you don't need to know everything about comics to enjoy the book, but knowing about comics...you'll enjoy it more.

And that was it. He didn't ask if he could borrow the issue and read the story or where he could pick up that comic or other comics. It was just a brief curiousity but that's where it stopped.

I find a lot of people are fine with comics being a niche market. I don't get that. I don't get people that don't like discussions on things that they enjoy or getting into conversations about something they find so immensely entertaining that it bothers them not to talk to people about it.

Anyone else happy with the world of comics where it is? It appears Paradox is. I imagine people being happy with the niche-like nature of comics are the same people that automatically dismiss it "selling out" or "diluted" as soon as it gains mass appeal.

I completely understand, and agree. I've been in similar situations, where I just can't grasp why someone wouldn't be interested in at least checking something out, comic related, but I suppose I'm too deep in the hole to imagine the outside perspective. But I don't think comics are a niche market; people just need to give them a chance.

I'd say the main thing holding comics back from being accepted is the general public's perspective on the funny books. When thinking about video games, it seems like they've been out of the mainstream for most of my life, until recently when people realized they were fun to play. Now the dorm TVs are always packed with people playing sports games and Call of Duty. People realized, "Hey, these nerds are actually on to something here. I like shooting Nazis." Comics need to feel like a worthwhile leisure activity, and not a complicated brick in the wall that is nerd culture. People might then think, "Hey, these nerds are actually on to something here. I like reading about [whatever they want, because there's a comic for everyone]." But then you hit the problem of leisure reading becoming a thing of the past, and most of the people I know who read for fu, generally have enough real books lined up to keep them deep in text for the next five years...

So I guess society needs to make reading fun again. Then people would read them and see that comics aren't always childish.

And on a completely separate note,

Does Chis Bachalo have two styles? I hear people complaining about how his stories can be hard to follow, and I understand their grievances. His Anti-Venom and New X-Men stories were twisted, and it's very fun to figure out what's going on, but I can see how they'd be a little unsettling to look at, but his work on Messiah Complex was fine. Does he have a more reserved style of story telling for certain situations? Or did he just not have any subject material to let him unleash his unique style?

[svp]

I am an outgoing person with friends. I enjoy and look forward to meeting people.
I find if I bring up the topic of comics I am met with dismissal. From not reading on their part, complete dismissal for any reason) to having a basic understanding but difference of opinion on content, art, story. I like the awkward comic conversation. People hold up their end of the conversation but in the end you KNOW there is zero interest.

Unless I am on the internet or comic convention. It is very difficult to get
someone to enjoy these subjects with gusto. After thinking about it, I myself, probably dismiss some artist or comic for any reason from time to time.

Once I went over to someones house to discuss real estate first and then climate data to be submitted to government. I saw a shelf dedicated to Chris Ware. We talked about Chris Ware and moved on. Then I saw a Hellboy and B.P.R.D. shelf. We talked about that and Darkhorse.
When the business conversation lulled we went back to comic talk. It was pleasant. I left wishing everyone had a comic shelf even if it is
a small one. Is that too much to ask?

As much as I like Olie I like Alex Ross more. Jim Lee I've never liked.

Everyone has a thing. Simply ask them what it is they are interested in.

I totally forgot what this thread was about. and I believe I fell asleep once typing this. Ha!

[Shawn Hopkins]

I was never a big fan of Jim Lee, and I don't like Coipel that much either. They're both competent, I guess, it's just a matter of style. Jim Lee art always felt cold, posed and mechanical to me, and Coipel is a bit too glam and he does draw heads and faces weird. But that's just personal taste, I don't see why someone's taste in comic book artists would be controversial.

[Mr. Rice]

I am an outgoing person with friends. I enjoy and look forward to meeting people.
I find if I bring up the topic of comics I am met with dismissal. From not reading on their part, complete dismissal for any reason) to having a basic understanding but difference of opinion on content, art, story. I like the awkward comic conversation. People hold up their end of the conversation but in the end you KNOW there is zero interest.

Unless I am on the internet or comic convention. It is very difficult to get
someone to enjoy these subjects with gusto. After thinking about it, I myself, probably dismiss some artist or comic for any reason from time to time.

Once I went over to someones house to discuss real estate first and then climate data to be submitted to government. I saw a shelf dedicated to Chris Ware. We talked about Chris Ware and moved on. Then I saw a Hellboy and B.P.R.D. shelf. We talked about that and Darkhorse.
When the business conversation lulled we went back to comic talk. It was pleasant. I left wishing everyone had a comic shelf even if it is
a small one. Is that too much to ask?

As much as I like Olie I like Alex Ross more. Jim Lee I've never liked.

Everyone has a thing. Simply ask them what it is they are interested in.

I totally forgot what this thread was about. and I believe I fell asleep once typing this. Ha!

I've noticed that. I have more comic conversations with strangers than I do people who actually like me... It's so weird...

[Shellhead]

I'm not a fan of either artist, but the results might be decent if they teamed up. Lee could draw the faces and Coipel could draw the rest.

[Mr. Rice]

I'm not a fan of either artist, but the results might be decent if they teamed up. Lee could draw the faces and Coipel could draw the rest.

But... every face Lee draws looks the same...

[Shellhead]

But... every face Lee draws looks the same...

That's true, but it's a prettier face than any that Coipel draws.

[kmeyers]

Comparing artist's styles is an apples vs oranges argument. Unless comparing people like Jim Lee and Marc Silvestri...

But my guess why Jim Lee is more popular is because he's done more of the bigger books for longer.

I like varying styles for different reasons, and there's really no need to compare, because you can't really...For instance, I love Frank Quitely




And then there's Gabrielle Dell'otto. I like both of these guys a lot, but they have completely different styles.

[kmeyers]

Another Dell'otto

[Deep_Sleeper]

To Mr. Rice
The mention of video games is very apt. There was a time when Super Nintendo and the very first Playstation and X-Box were very much nerd culture. Ever since HALO and Call of Duty took off, it's almost antisocial to not have a next gen gaming system. People don't seem to get weird looks when toting a novel. It's not weird or unique to be reading a novel. But for comics, it is weird...despite how mainstream comic book movies and TV shows are.

As far as the Chris Bachalo question is concerned, I find it to be very appropriate. I don't know if it's his style as much as colouring and inking. When he did issues of X-Men with Victor Gischler, his art was very easy to decipher. The colourist and inker did a great job making sure Bachalo's art did not get lost. With Wolverine & the X-Men, I find that his art can get lost in the inking and dark colour pallets.

To Shellhead:
You really like the faces Jim Lee draws to Coipel's? I thought Coipel's illustration of Emma Frost, Mary Jane, Sif to be prettier than the recent images by Jim Lee. Once again, I'm a big fan of Coipel, so it's probably a bias.

To Kmeyer:
I think Frank Quitely is pretty awesome, as well. I think Quitely has a sense of scope and space that very few artists understand. He adds these subtle touch of physics to his work that I find absolutely amazing and beautiful.

OK! New topic!

Suicide! Coward's way out or service to humanity?

I'm going to go with service to humanity! A while back, I got into a deep argument with a friend who felt that committing suicide was a selfish decision. I beg to differ. I think if someone feels that they are unhappy with their place in the world and has absolutely nothing to add, then by all means...they are doing society a favour.

Now, one compelling argument that my friend had was...what about the friends and family this person left behind? It is selfish to not consider what torment or emotional anguish the suicidee (?) puts his or her friends and family through.

So me? Pro-suicide. If you want to take your life, the world is better off for it. What say you?

[TheLastSamurai...on this block]

I choose to leave it. Good day, sir.

But Matt...

I SAID GOOD DAY.

[FanboyStranger]

I was just reading about Matt Wagner's new book from Legendary, The Tower Chronicles, with art from Simon Bisley. The series will a variant cover from Jim Lee, which left me with the question, "Who the hell buys a Jim Lee variant when you already have a cover from Simon Bisley?"

[Mr. Rice]

OK! New topic!

Suicide! Coward's way out or service to humanity?

I'm going to go with service to humanity! A while back, I got into a deep argument with a friend who felt that committing suicide was a selfish decision. I beg to differ. I think if someone feels that they are unhappy with their place in the world and has absolutely nothing to add, then by all means...they are doing society a favour.

Now, one compelling argument that my friend had was...what about the friends and family this person left behind? It is selfish to not consider what torment or emotional anguish the suicidee (?) puts his or her friends and family through.

So me? Pro-suicide. If you want to take your life, the world is better off for it. What say you?

The thing about suicide is...
You have to judge the rationality of that decision. Does that person really want to take their life? Or are they just being irrational due to some extra stress in their lives.
I do see suicide as a selfish decision, but that shouldn't change anything. My buying comics is a selfish decision, but that's not a bad thing. Realizing your selfish desires is one step towards self-actualization, and a self-actualized person wouldn't commit suicide. If a person is seriously considering suicide, chances are, they're over thinking a lot of things, looking into the future and saying "things would just be better off if I weren't around." but if they'd just slow down, let time pass by, and try and realize the positives of the present, they'd see things a little better.

I could go on and on with this feel good hockus pockus, but if society, today, decided that suicide was acceptable, it would only be because the people considering it were still thinking very rationally, and had everything put into perspective.

So, suicide is selfish, but what isn't? And in most cases people don't want to take their lives, they feel like it's the only option due to irrational thinking.
And on the subject of family, suicide is contagious. It spreads.

I don't know, there's more I could say, but I'll leave it.

I remember when I used to wake up early on Saturdays to watch cartoons. Here I am, up six hours earlier than usual, discuss suicide while taking care of my sick girlfriend. Boy, the joys of growing up.

[Deep_Sleeper]

I think what suicide "acceptance" eventually leads to is euthanasia. The argument of which is right...a mercy kill or all life is sacred. Doctors have an oath that they will not take a life and will do everything to preserve it. But what if someone is in so much pain with continued life meaning prolonged pain, is the right thing to necessarily keep that person alive? What if that person were to give permission to "pull the plug"? Is that necessarily the wrong thing to do?

BTW...taking care of a sick girlfriend? Good stuff.