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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Box View Post
    Because both Batman and Spider-Man have at moments been maligned by local law enforcement, the papers, and media. Too many other heros have already been down that road. Been there, done that! It would just reduce Superman living out a cliche, for better or worse.
    And that sucks.

    There's a big difference between social activism and Anti-heroes with feet of clay. You make a great point, was Golden Age Superman at odds with local law enforcement? Did the media ever try and turn the people against him? Not that I can recall. It seems to me that these concepts were so fresh to Spider-man in the 60's because we hadn't seen them in DC comics before to any great extent. But in order to rationalize bastardizing Superman's character, his history gets revised in the mind's of some people.

    Where is the social crusading in that was advertised in AC Nu anyways? After the first half of #1, that's over with and Clark starts working through Peter Parker's checklist:

    Authority is out to get him
    he's not fully matured physically or emotionally
    he's poor
    the media turns the public against him
    its not easy being a hero
    he's even got a pseudo Aunt May in his landlord, watching his back.

    I think the only thing worse than Superman's cliched existence is someone else's.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Well, Batman is kind of a subversion, since it's Bob Kane doing his own stuff while his editor asked him to do a character "like this Superman fella", but yeah, Spider-Man definitively has a lot in common with Superman. A superhero in red and blue with a "weak" glasses bearer that works in the printed media secret identity? Nope, I don't see any connection.
    And Superman was never supposed to be this guy who just follows the law perfectly. He was meant to be antiestablishment, but only became establishment because of post WW2 patriotism and the comics code.

  3. #138
    Junior Member Box's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntikrst View Post
    And that sucks.

    There's a big difference between social activism and Anti-heroes with feet of clay. You make a great point, was Golden Age Superman at odds with local law enforcement? Did the media ever try and turn the people against him? Not that I can recall. It seems to me that these concepts were so fresh to Spider-man in the 60's because we hadn't seen them in DC comics before to any great extent. But in order to rationalize bastardizing Superman's character, his history gets revised in the mind's of some people.

    Where is the social crusading in that was advertised in AC Nu anyways? After the first half of #1, that's over with and Clark starts working through Peter Parker's checklist:

    Authority is out to get him
    he's not fully matured physically or emotionally
    he's poor
    the media turns the public against him
    its not easy being a hero
    he's even got a pseudo Aunt May in his landlord, watching his back.

    I think the only thing worse than Superman's cliched existence is someone else's.
    Nicely put!

    We're kinda faced with an Super-spider amalgam, is it Peter Kent or Clark Parker?
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  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntikrst View Post
    And that sucks.

    There's a big difference between social activism and Anti-heroes with feet of clay. You make a great point, was Golden Age Superman at odds with local law enforcement? Did the media ever try and turn the people against him? Not that I can recall. It seems to me that these concepts were so fresh to Spider-man in the 60's because we hadn't seen them in DC comics before to any great extent. But in order to rationalize bastardizing Superman's character, his history gets revised in the mind's of some people.

    Where is the social crusading in that was advertised in AC Nu anyways? After the first half of #1, that's over with and Clark starts working through Peter Parker's checklist:

    Authority is out to get him
    he's not fully matured physically or emotionally
    he's poor
    the media turns the public against him
    its not easy being a hero
    he's even got a pseudo Aunt May in his landlord, watching his back.

    I think the only thing worse than Superman's cliched existence is someone else's.
    I actually remember one story where cops tried to hunt down Superman. It was written as a novel and it was played for laughs (they think he is in an elevator, managed to block him there, and discover Clark Kent inside the elevator). But the point remains: cops tried to arrest Superman back in the Golden Age.It was in a Superman issue (and not Action), 2 or 3 I think.
    As for the social issue, you forget Clark investigating the "Factory of Tommorow" back in issue 3.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  5. #140

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    He actually was in trouble with the police from what I've seen. The early golden age Superman did take the law into his own hands and have the police chasing after him as a result. For example, in one story, a friend of Clark's is killed in a hit and run, and he decides to take it upon himself to make the streets of Metropolis safer. Among other things, he breaks into a radio station, manhandling an announcer, and gives a stern warning over the radio to the people of Metropolis about safe driving, and then he demolishes a car factory that uses faulty parts and destroys a used car lot.

  6. #141
    Junior Member Box's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    He actually was in trouble with the police from what I've seen. The early golden age Superman did take the law into his own hands and have the police chasing after him as a result. For example, in one story, a friend of Clark's is killed in a hit and run, and he decides to take it upon himself to make the streets of Metropolis safer. Among other things, he breaks into a radio station, manhandling an announcer, and gives a stern warning over the radio to the people of Metropolis about safe driving, and then he demolishes a car factory that uses faulty parts and destroys a used car lot.
    But a nice commentary on the amoral corporate world and a wish fulfillment nonetheless.
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  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    I actually remember one story where cops tried to hunt down Superman. It was written as a novel and it was played for laughs (they think he is in an elevator, managed to block him there, and discover Clark Kent inside the elevator). But the point remains: cops tried to arrest Superman back in the Golden Age.It was in a Superman issue (and not Action), 2 or 3 I think.
    As for the social issue, you forget Clark investigating the "Factory of Tommorow" back in issue 3.
    Sounds like a tale out of Band Camp to me, hardly worth basing a supposed reputation of being an enemy of the State a la Peter Parker. Clark Kent has always investigated social issues, he spent a lot of time in Suicide Slum doing just that very thing during Post COIE, now it's fresh and and new, not seen since 1942?
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    He actually was in trouble with the police from what I've seen. The early golden age Superman did take the law into his own hands and have the police chasing after him as a result. For example, in one story, a friend of Clark's is killed in a hit and run, and he decides to take it upon himself to make the streets of Metropolis safer. Among other things, he breaks into a radio station, manhandling an announcer, and gives a stern warning over the radio to the people of Metropolis about safe driving, and then he demolishes a car factory that uses faulty parts and destroys a used car lot.
    Another equally vague example of the cops out to get Golden Age Superman. Superman was anti-corruption sure, he held some mining industrialists accountable by buring them in a shaft too, but no cops intervened after they emerged from the mine. The corrupt men didn't seek retribution through media misrepresentation or through dirty cops with an axe to grind, either. That's pure Stan Lee.
    Last edited by The Beast; 04-13-2012 at 03:43 PM.

  8. #143

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    Sgt. Casey was always on Superman's case. But that was one individual cop and didn't necessarily reflect the opinion of the whole department.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntikrst View Post
    Sounds like a tale out of Band Camp to me, hardly worth basing a supposed reputation of being an enemy of the State a la Peter Parker. Clark Kent has always investigated social issues, he spent a lot of time in Suicide Slum doing just that very thing during Post COIE, now it's fresh and and new, not seen since 1942?


    Another equally vague example of the cops out to get Golden Age Superman. Superman was anti-corruption sure, he held some mining industrialists accountable by buring them in a shaft too, but no cops intervened after they emerged from the mine. The corrupt men didn't seek retribution through media misrepresentation or through dirty cops with an axe to grind, either. That's pure Stan Lee.
    That's realism. I mean, yeah, the establishment would never let someone like Golden Age Superman jump around freely and attack businessmen. Obviously. You know, even Spider-man was more the victim of the Daily Bugle than the cops or the Army (appart from some periods like when he was accused of the murder of George Stacy). In early stories, you even had cops telling at Jameson: "ho, shut up, we know Spider-Man is a good guy" (Amazing Spider-Man 6 in 1963, the first Sandman appearance, if I'm not mistaken). Peter parker has never really been an ennemy of the State (appart from particular stories where he is accused of murder or things like that). He is Jameson's.
    As for my example, honestly, it was an example of Superman being hunted by cops. They were trying to hunt him down, and nothing indicates Sgt Blake was pursuing a personnal vendetta (if anything, he admits Superman is probably not a bad person, although he will still arrest him). None of his men question the motives (they do mention the fact they won't be able to restrain him though). It's only played for laughs in the sense it's shown the cops are unable to get even close to capture him, but that's it.
    Now, another thing in the Golden Age is that most people seem to think Superman is a hoax. Even Sgt Blake thinks that all these stories about him jumping above buildings and running faster than bullets are just exageration and that he is really just some muscular dude. So it makes sense that they wouldn't call the Army for the hunt like they did here. Now they have satelites pictures, phones videos and all that stuff. Hard to pretend he's an hoax (although, if we believe Olsen in issue 3, that's what they said at first).
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  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Ear In The Fireplace View Post
    Sgt. Casey was always on Superman's case. But that was one individual cop and didn't necessarily reflect the opinion of the whole department.
    On the other hand, he probably was on this case because said case was assigned to him by his superior?
    "All right, Blake, you heard about this Superman person, right? I want you to lead the case and to find him."
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  11. #146

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    Personally, I think ressentiment (not to be confused with resentment) is the reason people want Superman to be less humble. There's dislike and jealousy because Superman is both powerful AND good. Thus, people want him to be humble and sometimes a doormat to feel better about themselves.

  12. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    On the other hand, he probably was on this case because said case was assigned to him by his superior?
    "All right, Blake, you heard about this Superman person, right? I want you to lead the case and to find him."
    I dunno, it seemed like Casey had a personal grudge against Superman--and Lane and Kent.

    It'd be cool to see Sgt. Casey butting heads with Inspector Henderson and Captain Sawyer. I mean if all these characters could be in the same continuity together--but *sigh* those days are gone.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Ear In The Fireplace View Post
    I dunno, it seemed like Casey had a personal grudge against Superman--and Lane and Kent.

    It'd be cool to see Sgt. Casey butting heads with Inspector Henderson and Captain Sawyer. I mean if all these characters could be in the same continuity together--but *sigh* those days are gone.
    Well, I didn't read all the Golden Age Superman stories, so I can't tell for sure, but in the one I read featuring him, he didn't seem to have any. He even mentioned in the end that Superman was probably a good person. And, again in that particular story, nothing indicates he was off duty.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  14. #149

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    Sgt. Casey's opinion of the Man of Steel evolved over time to the point where he respected him.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRAKABOOM! View Post
    I’ve seen people referring to the new stuff as “dark and edgy” or “emo” as well. where is all this in the new superman books?
    It's the emo thing I don't get. It seems to be almost entirely based around that one scene where Clark finds Lois with another guy and walks away sadly. Call me crazy, but I think anyone would be slightly bummed out in that situation. I'd hardly call it emo. I'd call it being a normal person.
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