Two Practical Questions About the Amazons' Murderous Villainy

[Rob_Olivera]

Sorry, I don't buy this. Too trite for my taste. For starters, most of us stop buying into mom's 'stork' stories long before 33. And wouldn't it be a mighty big shock to finally reveal the big bad lie? "Oh, baby girl (who is almost 33 now), you weren't really born divinely; actually, we need to go rape and kill some men in the hopes of having a baby of your own." Sorry, don't buy it as remotely something that makes sense.

Also, has there been any indication of shame shown by the Amazons?

...and if the Amazons have never interacted with the outside world, why would they show shame at all? Where did they learn this was an "inappropriate" practice that needs to be hidden until the time comes? With their divine mentors being the God of War, Hera going on killing rampages, the ruler of the Underworld.. etc.. what they're doing seems rather tame.

I just do not see any plausible explanation as to why Diana a: Did not know about this., or b: was shielded from it.

[chastmastr]

And if it was just something Hephaestus said that wasn't true, then why would she assume that the people she spent most of her life with were all, well, serial post-coital murderers? She seemed to really believe it without any real hesitation, so either way she's coming across as... oy, not too good here. There should at least have been some astonished, aghast disbelief, followed by struggling acceptance, but she just seems to go along with it.

[brettc1]

...and if the Amazons have never interacted with the outside world, why would they show shame at all? Where did they learn this was an "inappropriate" practice that needs to be hidden until the time comes? With their divine mentors being the God of War, Hera going on killing rampages, the ruler of the Underworld.. etc.. what they're doing seems rather tame.

I just do not see any plausible explanation as to why Diana a: Did not know about this., or b: was shielded from it.

There are lots of things kids never find out until they get older.

Also, we are used to the idea of being able to get online and google the answer to just about anything. The Amazons, being a highly ritualistic society, would probably have secrets that are only discovered at a certain age. Initiation into the mysteries, as it were.

What is far more worrisome is how the younger Amazons would know what to do when they got on the boat? Seduction is an art - is it possible that prior to this event the Amazons capture men and use them as practice, getting the girls involved to kill them afterwards to steel them for the actual event? Or are some of the girls virgins, and their first time with a man is some nightmarish college co-ed orgy of the damned?

The more you think about this horror, the worse it gets.

[Rob_Olivera]

There are lots of things kids never find out until they get older.

Also, we are used to the idea of being able to get online and google the answer to just about anything. The Amazons, being a highly ritualistic society, would probably have secrets that are only discovered at a certain age. Initiation into the mysteries, as it were.

What is far more worrisome is how the younger Amazons would know what to do when they got on the boat? Seduction is an art - is it possible that prior to this event the Amazons capture men and use them as practice, getting the girls involved to kill them afterwards to steel them for the actual event? Or are some of the girls virgins, and their first time with a man is some nightmarish college co-ed orgy of the damned?

The more you think about this horror, the worse it gets.

I think things would be a little more tolerable if Azzarello had a habit of following up on bombs like the Zeus issue. As far as this goes, I think we'll be left to ponder much of it for a long time if not forever.

[Fate's Faith]

There are lots of things kids never find out until they get older.

Also, we are used to the idea of being able to get online and google the answer to just about anything. The Amazons, being a highly ritualistic society, would probably have secrets that are only discovered at a certain age. Initiation into the mysteries, as it were.

What is far more worrisome is how the younger Amazons would know what to do when they got on the boat? Seduction is an art - is it possible that prior to this event the Amazons capture men and use them as practice, getting the girls involved to kill them afterwards to steel them for the actual event? Or are some of the girls virgins, and their first time with a man is some nightmarish college co-ed orgy of the damned?

The more you think about this horror, the worse it gets.

I had a picture in mind of a family sitting around the dinner table and the mother talking about how many lovers she had before the kids' father or the first time she did some sexual practice. Those things just don't happen between parents and children. I know I do not care to hear something like that. From what we know, this could be the practice of the original Amazons and not their daughters. People are also assuming that a young woman would ask these questions when she has never seen a man before. It would be like going back in time and George Washington saying things would be easy if they could get internet to the White House. You don't ask about something you've never even knew existed. Assuming she has natural urges, she may inquire about that but again, we have no idea how sex is viewed in this society. Has the story told us what they do when a woman become pregnant? Are they secluded from the rest? Are children secluded and raised with or without their mothers? Does the entire group go on the raids or just a selected few chosen to become mothers that cycle? People are asking how Diana couldn't know this information but then how can anyone not know they have brothers and sisters for years before they were born? It happens. Then to add to this is the over-protected mother that Hippolyte has always been seen as. Assuming that hasn't changed. I would assume occasionally Amazons go on these raids and some do not return since they don't know what kind of men they will be encountering. To me, its extemely easy to come up with a plausible explanation how Diana doesn't know about this or was shielded from it. She was concieved from the love of her mother with a god. She thought she was made from clay. I'm sure everything seems magical when you are yourself.

[Fate's Faith]

I think things would be a little more tolerable if Azzarello had a habit of following up on bombs like the Zeus issue. As far as this goes, I think we'll be left to ponder much of it for a long time if not forever.

I'm thinking I will probably enjoy the speculation more than I will the actual truth. I know the last time I really got into thinking about Wonder Woman the comic was basically the very beginning (the Contest). Between that and now its been a book where no thought was needed.

[Rob_Olivera]

I'm thinking I will probably enjoy the speculation more than I will the actual truth. I know the last time I really got into thinking about Wonder Woman the comic was basically the very beginning (the Contest). Between that and now its been a book where no thought was needed.

I can understand that.. but some of the things that have transpired in this latest incarnation tend to demand explanations. They're aiming for new blood in readership, meaning people who may have known about the existence of Wonder Woman but never read it. Sometimes I picture myself never having been into wonder woman then picking this up, and being horribly confused. I can not speak for anyone else, but I will say that a book that makes me guess alot of things doesn't hold my attention for very long. By contrast, this is not to say that I like oversimplification either.

[Maximum Impact]

I'm thinking I will probably enjoy the speculation more than I will the actual truth. I know the last time I really got into thinking about Wonder Woman the comic was basically the very beginning (the Contest). Between that and now its been a book where no thought was needed.

If that's truly the case then you haven't been paying attention. Rucka's run alone posed numerous questions about the moral implications of Diana's actions, all of which necessitated thought.

[Fate's Faith]

I can understand that.. but some of the things that have transpired in this latest incarnation tend to demand explanations. They're aiming for new blood in readership, meaning people who may have known about the existence of Wonder Woman but never read it. Sometimes I picture myself never having been into wonder woman then picking this up, and being horribly confused. I can not speak for anyone else, but I will say that a book that makes me guess alot of things doesn't hold my attention for very long. By contrast, this is not to say that I like oversimplification either.

I don't think its making us guess. Its allowing us to really think over what we've so far learned. I know when #3 hit, that was huge in discussion. Well, before it hit the stands actually. We've had another in #7 that has really turned things on its head but #8 isn't even out yet so its been less than a month. The story so far is working great to me. One of my favorite reads of the month and each month is just keeps bringing something new. I've just been willing to follow along where its going. I'm fine with leaving the Amazons where they are currently because I know they'll come back into the picture. I'm sure my thoughts about #7 will move on to whatever #8 brings. I just find each issue of the title to make me want more of what I just read and in a month's time I want to know more about that and a month later I want more of that. Like I said, I'm beginning to wonder if he can actually live up to what the title is promising each month.

[Fate's Faith]

If that's truly the case then you haven't been paying attention. Rucka's run alone posed numerous questions about the moral implications of Diana's actions, all of which necessitated thought.

Yes, I quit reading the title not long after Perez left the art duties and the second Amazon tribe was introduced.

[Maximum Impact]

I don't think its making us guess. Its allowing us to really think over what we've so far learned. I know when #3 hit, that was huge in discussion. Well, before it hit the stands actually. We've had another in #7 that has really turned things on its head but #8 isn't even out yet so its been less than a month. The story so far is working great to me. One of my favorite reads of the month and each month is just keeps bringing something new. I've just been willing to follow along where its going. I'm fine with leaving the Amazons where they are currently because I know they'll come back into the picture. I'm sure my thoughts about #7 will move on to whatever #8 brings. I just find each issue of the title to make me want more of what I just read and in a month's time I want to know more about that and a month later I want more of that. Like I said, I'm beginning to wonder if he can actually live up to what the title is promising each month.

I'm curious to know just what you think the title is promising?

[americanwonder]

There are lots of things kids never find out until they get older.

Also, we are used to the idea of being able to get online and google the answer to just about anything. The Amazons, being a highly ritualistic society, would probably have secrets that are only discovered at a certain age. Initiation into the mysteries, as it were...

Tis true that we tend not to dump all information on kids right away - we tend to bring them along gradually (as much as we can). But, we don't wait 'til their 30s to say something akin to "Santa doesn't really exist; your ma and I go on raiding parties, slaughtering and pillaging and now it's your turn to join us."

[Maximum Impact]

Yes, I quit reading the title not long after Perez left the art duties and the second Amazon tribe was introduced.

Well you missed out on a lot and it invalidates your argument because you haven't read enough to know whether or not thought was needed.

[jelebino]

Sometimes I picture myself never having been into wonder woman then picking this up, and being horribly confused. I can not speak for anyone else, but I will say that a book that makes me guess alot of things doesn't hold my attention for very long. By contrast, this is not to say that I like oversimplification either.

Azzarello starts out with some credit, for me, sheerly on account of his reputation.

It's clear he's writing WW as a suspense thriller in some sense; and on the strength of 100 Bullets, which I haven't read but everyone praises, he knows how to manage a complex suspense plot. So I have a basic confidence it'll all work out.

Even so, comics writers seem to have a lunatic belief that they can drop an enigmatic hint in issue #1 and expect their readers will still be interested when they wrap it up for the trade paperback in issue #6. Don't count on that, guys, especially when you're selling around 25,000.

In this case, Brian and Cliff have sold me on the deal that this is the story of Zola, mother of the next monarch of Olympus, as revealed via Wonder Woman as viewpoint character. I need to see more of Zola, and fast. She needs to be a fully developed character by the time she has to make the critical decisions.

[americanwonder]

I had a picture in mind of a family sitting around the dinner table and the mother talking about how many lovers she had before the kids' father or the first time she did some sexual practice. Those things just don't happen between parents and children...

AH! lol. True, most kids don't want all the details. But most kids DO ask lots of questions. Diana isn't asking for all details (though mom did get a little too detailed there); this is a pretty big part of Amazon society to keep from someone well into adulthood.

... From what we know, this could be the practice of the original Amazons and not their daughters...

You don't think that somewhere, sometime, the daughters are going to find out?

... People are also assuming that a young woman would ask these questions when she has never seen a man before...

I don't see any indication that Diana doesn't know that men existed. And because she'd never seen one, that seems all the more reason she (and other daughters) would be asking more and more questions.

... Has the story told us what they do when a woman become pregnant? Are they secluded from the rest? Are children secluded and raised with or without their mothers? ...

A chunk of society goes "missing" for at least nine months and Diana isn't going to notice? Do you hide the kids until they are fully grown?

... To me, its extemely easy to come up with a plausible explanation how Diana doesn't know about this or was shielded from it...

Sorry, it may work for you, but these speculations/explanations don't ring true to me.