Two Practical Questions About the Amazons' Murderous Villainy

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

(1) Why did Hippolyta make up the lie about the clay origin? Surely if she had said "I got pregnant the same way other Amazons get pregnant," it would have drawn even less attention to the actual circumstances of Diana's conception, which was the point of lying.

To protect Diana from Hera. Also, only a select few Amazons know the actual truth.

Some people have suggested that the clay origin lie was necessary to explain Diana's powers, but I don't think this is true. Saying (falsely) "Diana, because you were the daughter of the queen of the Amazons, the Greek goddesses (or Gaia, or the universe, or whatever) granted you great powers" works equally well with a clay origin or a bio origin.

Well, Perez invented that certain mechanic. Previously, the gods never gave Diana powers; only life. She was born an Amazon who was said to be a match for the gods. Her powers came from a combo of purple fire and being an Amazon.

(2) If the Amazons consider murdering their sperm donors to be a natural part of their culture - appropriate and justified, from their point of view - why is Diana just learning about it now? She's an adult; she talks to other adult Amazons; surely it would have come up. Why would it be a secret on their island?

Maybe, not every Amazon does it. It could be that a select group of Amazons do it every time.

[americanwonder]

... The fact that Hephaestus' story doesn't make sense when put under scrutiny makes it less likely to be a plot hole and more likely to be a case of an unreliable narrator. I bet my left shoe that this will be revisted at a later date and we'll get more of the story and it'll make a whole lot more sense.

Yeah, I don't really buy what Heph is selling just yet. He says himself that gods cant really be trusted.

If I do look at it at face value, I got to agree with those that think Diana looks dumb. This is a pretty big "secret" to keep Diana in the dark, and if the Amazons aren't ashamed at all, is there really any reason to keep it from her? No 'birds and bees' talk for Wonder Tot as she grows up?

Also, wouldn't someone in the outside world notice a boatload or two gone missing and/or where everyone is dead? Without godly aid, how are the Amazons hiding the island so well?

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

The fact that Hephaestus' story doesn't make sense when put under scrutiny makes it less likely to be a plot hole and more likely to be a case of an unreliable narrator. I bet my left shoe that this will be revisted at a later date and we'll get more of the story and it'll make a whole lot more sense.

This is what I've been saying. The Amazons are seemingly beholden to Aphrodite. Hephaestus and Apollo seem to be in conflict with Aphrodite on some level. No matter how benevolent they seem, there's always an endgame, and sowing conflict in the royal house of Themyscira could be ideal for them.

[americanwonder]

... Also, only a select few Amazons know the actual truth, too...

Is this your suggestion or from the comic? I don't remember it, and it doesn't ring true to me - wouldn't the other Amazons want to know what's going on when a crop of babies shows up?

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

Also, wouldn't someone in the outside world notice a boatload or two gone missing and/or where everyone is dead? Without godly aid, how are the Amazons hiding the island so well?

IIRC, according to JLA, the island is back in the Bermuda Triangle.

[americanwonder]

IIRC, according to JLA, the island is back in the Bermuda Triangle.

Um, ok - must have missed that. Guess that could work.

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

Is this your suggestion or from the comic? I don't remember it, and it doesn't ring true to me - wouldn't the other Amazons want to know what's going on when a crop of babies shows up?

No, I'm referring to a small circle of Amazons who know that Diana is the daughter of Zeus, and that they came up with the clay origin with Hippolyta. That's confirmed in the actual comic.
None of the other Amazons know the truth about Diana.

[americanwonder]

No, I'm referring to a small circle of Amazons who know that Diana is the daughter of Zeus, and that they came up with the clay origin with Hippolyta. That's confirmed in the actual comic.
None of the other Amazons know the truth about Diana.

Oh, I see. Oops, my bad.

[Fate's Faith]

Something I just considered. Hera had her spying going on and she's missed two things. Zeus and Hippolyte. As well as which of her fellow gods granted Hippolyte's wish to create a child out of clay. As far as she knows, assuming she watches those kinds of things, doesn't this mean another god was involved in the lie? I can imagine Hera seeing one of the Amazons with a child when no men are nearby and questioning where this child came from. Of course this is assuming she cares what happens on the island. But surely they considered that the clay origin may cause questions.

Now about the raids, Diana would need to be over 33 in order to know and participate in one. I don't think she's being put at that age.

[brettc1]

(2) If the Amazons consider murdering their sperm donors to be a natural part of their culture - appropriate and justified, from their point of view - why is Diana just learning about it now? She's an adult; she talks to other adult Amazons; surely it would have come up. Why would it be a secret on their island?

I'm guessing the first question has been well canvassed by now. Here is some thinking about the second that I did on another thread...

That could lead to a whole sociological analysis - The Amazons hate men, but they like sex with men. So they seduce the men, have sex with them, and then feel guilty because they enjoyed it. They transfer that guilt onto the men, blaming them for sullying their Amazons purity, and in the act of punishing the men for their "crime" excise their own feelings of guilt.

Which might explain their horrified reaction to Hippolyta's dalliance with Zeus, not that she had sex with man was but prepared to openly say she enjoyed it.

[chastmastr]

I bet my left shoe that this will be revisted at a later date and we'll get more of the story and it'll make a whole lot more sense.

Possibly under a different writer! Let the retcons roll!

[americanwonder]

... Now about the raids, Diana would need to be over 33 in order to know and participate in one. I don't think she's being put at that age.

I dare say that most of us are aware of things that have transpired well before our time, even without participating. If Hippolyta, and the Amazons, want to raise Diana as the 'perfect' Amazon, why wouldn't they socialize her, teach her their most important practices, from an early age? She's going to find out at somepoint - is her mom really going to wait 'til Diana is 33 to explain the "birds and bees?"

And Brett, are you trying to make this story worse?

[slvn]

I dare say that most of us are aware of things that have transpired well before our time, even without participating. If Hippolyta, and the Amazons, want to raise Diana as the 'perfect' Amazon, why wouldn't they socialize her, teach her their most important practices, from an early age? She's going to find out at somepoint - is her mom really going to wait 'til Diana is 33 to explain the "birds and bees?"

Because of shame and the desire to protect their daugthers as much as they believe they can. Maybe they view the raids, killings and child abandonments as necessary evils (necessary for reasons we will eventually learn). Because they feel burdened by having to do all this, they keep their daughters innocent as long as possible by concealing this information until that time of the century.

[americanwonder]

Because of shame and the desire to protect their daugthers as much as they believe they can. Maybe they view the raids, killings and child abandonments as necessary evils (necessary for reasons we will eventually learn). Because they feel burdened by having to do all this, they keep their daughters innocent as long as possible by concealing this information until that time of the century.

Sorry, I don't buy this. Too trite for my taste. For starters, most of us stop buying into mom's 'stork' stories long before 33. And wouldn't it be a mighty big shock to finally reveal the big bad lie? "Oh, baby girl (who is almost 33 now), you weren't really born divinely; actually, we need to go rape and kill some men in the hopes of having a baby of your own." Sorry, don't buy it as remotely something that makes sense.

Also, has there been any indication of shame shown by the Amazons?

[chastmastr]

I do have a lot of trouble imagining that the Amazons go along with only the vaguest ideas of where they come from, and then each new generation is abruptly told every few decades, "Right, now it's time to go out screwin' and killin' random passers-by," and just nod their heads and say "Okay."

It's like The Hills Have Eyes or something.