Coming Soon to the DCnU Trinity

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Maybe she used to be, but decided to embrace the ideals of man's world because the Amazons are bullies.

Don´t use "man´s world", that sounds sexist.

Just use World or Outside world, there´s no derrogatory connotation attached to those.

[Fate's Faith]

From Perez to #600, almost every new writer has been content to move Wonder Woman to a new city and introduce a new supporting cast. Only one thing was consistent these past 27 years: the Amazons and Paradise Island endured, despite multiple attempts to destroy them. Now they too are gone, and with them, Diana no longer has a place of her own. This is the problem.

I was wondering, what day of the week Zola's baby is born on? Just mildly curious but seeing as you are peering into the future and know how this all ends up, why not tell us. Save us some money and tell us the plot of issue #11. Maybe quote the dialog on pages six and seven. Go on. You know that the Amazons will not endure beyond this and Paradise Island is gone so lay it all out. Tell us about the cover to issue #14.

This is one reason I think this aspect of the story is poorly written. The Amazons (both female and male) are exaggeratedly one-dimentional (at best), and Diana (as far as we know) is so polar opposite that she seems more foreign at home than she does in our world. It doesn't feel like she grew up there at all. It's a disconnected paint by agenda that doesn't fit together coherently.

Really? One-dimensional Amazons. Again, you also are reading something that is being denied the rest of us. I've seen nothing that really tells me the complete story of the Amazons. Yes, it is a one dimensional side since that's the only side we've seen. You could say that Green Lantern uses a bow and arrow since he's wearing the same color as Green Arrow and be as correct using that standard. I've seen some scenes on the island and a story told of them which may or may not be their past. And what does polar opposite mean when we've only seen one side of the Amazons in the story. If you are going to accuse someone of agenda, maybe you should state up front your own because its apparent you both have one and it seems to have nothing to do with the true nature of Diana and the Amazons in this story.

[americanwonder]

Maybe she used to be, but decided to embrace the ideals of man's world because the Amazons are bullies.

Maybe. But like I said above, if that's the case, the story itself has done a poor job conveying that.

Really? One-dimensional Amazons. Again, you also are reading something that is being denied the rest of us. I've seen nothing that really tells me the complete story of the Amazons. Yes, it is a one dimensional side since that's the only side we've seen...

Please show me where I said I'd read the whole story.

I'm just saying the Amazons (both male and female), as they have been shown thus far, are incredibly one dimensional.

And yes, I think DC and Azzarello have an agenda here (be that good, be that bad, whatever - agenda isn't necessarily a bad thing). To me, it's obvious DiDio doesn't care much for WW's traditional background (it's also obvious he does a very poor job with it). Azzarello, himself, stated DC set out to change WW (ie agenda); and the idea apparently wasn't one Azzarello was crazy about, so he offered his own. Writing a story to fit predetermined changes is writing with an agenda, no?

[chastmastr]

Don´t use "man´s world", that sounds sexist.

Man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world.

[Sacred Knight]

Actually a few of them have already hit the preboot numbers for books in that slot in the last two years (because comparing it to the low sales last year is kind of like taking a swipe at low hanging fruit) & still haven't stabilised yet. I predict that most of them will be below the preboot numbers by years end. An not just becuase i hate the reboot, but because the reboot hasn't lived up to its promises. Its not suprising really... I know that WW fans have been some of the more vocal complainants on this topic, but frankly all the rebooted characters are pretty extreme make-overs of much loved characters. I mean, sure WW need a reboot, but this wasn't the specific reboot it needed. Its kind of gone from one extreme to the other.

That's not really accurate. There are plenty of characters who have not received extreme makeovers. Flash, GL, Batman, Nightwing, Red Robin, Robin, Aquaman, Batwoman...and that's just off the top of my head. Heck that's been a complaint of the reboot with some, the randomness of some characters like WW being changed up a lot, and characters like Hal who hasn't really been changed at all.

[americanwonder]

Man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world.

Man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world.

[Fate's Faith]

Please show me where I said I'd read the whole story. Oh wait, I didn't. So perhaps you may want to keep your flimsy strawmen to yourself.

I'm just saying the Amazons (both male and female), as they have been shown thus far, are incredibly one dimensional.

Without acknowledging you have only seen one dimension. So making the statement they are one dimensional seems to be assuming that you know the ending of the story. We've seen one scene where the males seem to state they are not slaves. We've seen a story told that the Amazons are oceanfaring rapist. Exactly how can you state they are incredibly one dimensional when we don't hear a single thing from their perspective of these events? You keep stating that this is the wrong approach but how does one make that statement when you don't even know the approach that's been taken? You've assumed the Amazons are simply evil with only one facet shown.

And yes, I think DC and Azzarello have an agenda here (be that good, be that bad, whatever - agenda isn't necessarily a bad thing). To me, it's obvious DiDio doesn't care much for WW's traditional background (it's also obvious he does a very poor job with it). Azzarello, himself, stated DC set out to change WW (ie agenda); and the idea apparently wasn't one Azzarello was crazy about, so he offered his own. Writing a story to fit predetermined changes is writing with an agenda, no?

I think they do have an agenda. Making the Wonder Woman sell. How does one go about that? Keep regurgitating the exact same thing and expecting a different result. You say its obvious Didio doesn't care for her background. Lets see, she's female, she's from an all female society, and she has ties to the Greek gods. Exactly what background are you referring to? And that last line, writing a story to fit predetermined changes. The change is simple. How to make Wonder Woman a stronger character. Now I'm sure someone could figure out how to do that without changing anything about her setting but for some reason no one has chosen to do that. So either there's a huge conspiracy involving years of creative teams who have chosen to bore the reader or her setting needs some adjustments.

To me, these are improvements even though I have no idea how it ends for a single reason. It's interesting. Far more interesting than anything I've read in years. Since Crisis to me. In the end, it may be a complete failure. But I'm not ready to say one way or the other until I've seen it completed. Not when the alternative is just more failure we have already been witness to. Supposedly, its going to get worse. Worse for some who didn't want a single thing changed. I want to see how worse it gets. Because I'm open to it. Not because I dislike Wonder Woman. I just want to see her be part of that Trinity because she made her own way there. Not because she was the closest woman they laid their hands on. Batman and Superman have gone through the same at various times and come out still the top two men in the DCU. I don't think its asking too much for Wonder Woman to show she's just as viable a vehicle to write about.

[americanwonder]

... Exactly how can you state they are incredibly one dimensional when we don't hear a single thing from their perspective of these events? ...

It's simple: I can state that because that's all we've been shown - "... as they have been shown thus far ..." - what's hard to understand about that?

... You've assumed the Amazons are simply evil with only one facet shown...

That's your assumption. Not mine. And it's an incorrect assumption, so you can keep it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I don't not trust Hephaestus' account as being the truliest of truths. Not yet. But, for now, that's all we have to go on, is it not?

... I think they do have an agenda. Making the Wonder Woman sell...

How can you possibly say they have an agenda?!?!?!?!

Yes, I agree, that's more than likely the core of the agenda (I'm sure they think their ideas make for a pretty good read, too). But here, I don't think they are trying to sell to all demographics equally (I don't think this is aiming for the Tiny Titans crowd). Whether that's a good decision or bad one - well, much of that is personal preference. You like it - great. I find it 'meh', at best.

I also prefer my Captain Marvel less "cursed" and edgy, but, hey, they didn't ask me.

[chastmastr]

and characters like Hal who hasn't really been changed at all.

Um... actually, Flash and GL are pretty dramatically changed in some ways. Barry isn't married to Iris, has no Kid Flash at all, no connection to Jay--that's pretty big. Hal, alas, seems to have become a bit of a trigger-happy jerk in the new continuity.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world.

Man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world man's world.

How juvenile.

This is why i don´t frequent this place like I used to.

[Reginleif]

How juvenile.

This is why i don´t frequent this place like I used to.

At what point can we say that it is women's world?

[americanwonder]

How juvenile.

This is why i don´t frequent this place like I used to.

You are so mature. ;)

[chastmastr]

How juvenile.

Why, yes. Yes, it is.

This is why i don´t frequent this place like I used to.

Yeahbuwha? You seem to be one of the more prolific posters in the threads I read...

[coveredinbees]

Don´t use "man´s world", that sounds sexist.

Just use World or Outside world, there´s no derrogatory connotation attached to those.

I like Man's World. It's funny, especially if you bold it.

[MajorHoy]

I like Man's World. It's funny, especially if you bold it.

And I'd rather have the DC heroes dealing with Man's World (which, to be honest, sounds like a lame wannabe chain store at the mall) then have all the action and stuff taking place in Wayne's World.