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  1. #76
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    I keep hearing she's a big deal, but it's not being backed up in the books. She's just wallpaper. What has she done since her return?

  2. #77
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .AČ View Post
    Rachel's backstory is far too convoluted for her to ever truly be accepted as a mainstream, A-List X-man (by which I mean in any medium beyond the comics themselves). In that sense, she'll always be in the shadow of her mother. It's not easy to try and explain who Rachel is without mentioning Jean.
    I really cannot agree. Her story is no more convoluted than other A-listers, and frankly, Jean is in her shadow, except for other media. You shouldn't have to explain who she is without mentioning Jean. It doesn't even make sense to try.
    Regardless, that doesn't mean she can't be appreciated by the core audience, or that she isn't her own character. In fact she's currently doing great things in Legacy and WatXM, not to mention single-handedly carrying Alpha and Omega. Tearing her away from the Phoenix mythos is disappointing for loyal fans, but Marvel wanting to simplify it is understandable. Some of the best characters "don't matter."
    There's nothing whatsoever to simplify and no need to tear her away from it. It's what she is! Trying to remove her from it is asinine and disastrous, because without that connection, she makes no sense. That's a hundred times worse than any convolutions.
    COEXIST | NOEXIST

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  3. #78
    Senior Member Meehl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortyseven View Post
    Rachel is gonna be in AvX and have an important role in the AvX tie in to WatXM.
    Also: Rachel is important to me. I used to not care much for her, but she's quickly become one of my favorites.
    All the biological Summers are interesting. Grandpa Corsair!
    VIVA KUSASAN!!! Morrison On Magneto: I made him into a stupid old drug-addicted idiot. CC had done a lot of good work over the years to redeem the character. And I went in and sh*t on all of it.

  4. #79
    Senior Member Daithi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    I really cannot agree. Her story is no more convoluted than other A-listers, and frankly, Jean is in her shadow, except for other media. You shouldn't have to explain who she is without mentioning Jean. It doesn't even make sense to try.
    Well her origin is always going to be daughter of Scott and Jean (lets not get into that other discussion for a sec!) from the future. Other than she's basically a female Kyle Reese from Terminator.

    Honestly Cable has a far more convoluted origin. Born in the present, taken to the future by his half sister from a different future, raised by his parents from the present taken to the future, goes back to the past.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamalamadingdong View Post
    I disagree wholeheartly. In events like this you want to spotlight the best, the most relevant, Jean's time as Phoenix therefore is the only one that matters.
    Rachel was a better Phoenix than Jean, by which I mean she was a Phoenix longer, and she mastered her powers better than Jean did. She also never went insane and killed a planet, and she also managed not to die numerous times. She also has a more straightforward and easy to understand backstory, whereas Jean is a bit too complicated for new readers IMO.

  6. #81
    #YOLO Prodigy55's Avatar
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    do you really matter, april-2012 n00b?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigy55 View Post
    do you really matter, april-2012 n00b?
    Why are so many of you people getting so defensive?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home made ectoplasm View Post
    Rachel was a better Phoenix than Jean, by which I mean she was a Phoenix longer, and she mastered her powers better than Jean did. She also never went insane and killed a planet, and she also managed not to die numerous times. She also has a more straightforward and easy to understand backstory, whereas Jean is a bit too complicated for new readers IMO.
    But the best Rachel story is the one where Wolverine stabs her. That to me screams that she hasn't done anything of importance.

  9. #84
    Senior Member Meehl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamalamadingdong View Post
    Why are so many of you people getting so defensive?
    They're making fun of you. It's funny that you think its defensiveness.

    OMG SO HI GUYS, LET'S TALK ABOUT BEAST. ISN'T BEAST RETARDED? LET'S HAVE AN OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW RETARDED BEAST IS. HE'S ALMOST AS BAD AND HANDICAPPED AS KITTY PRYDE, AND SHE'S JEWISH. I KNOW RIGHT? AS I'VE SAID, BEAST IS RETARDED AND YOU CAN'T DISPROVE THAT, SO THERE'S NO POINT IN DISAGREEING WITH ME. BUT LET'S DISCUSS IF YOU AGREE WITH ME. IT'S A REASONABLE QUESTION TO ASK, LOL.
    VIVA KUSASAN!!! Morrison On Magneto: I made him into a stupid old drug-addicted idiot. CC had done a lot of good work over the years to redeem the character. And I went in and sh*t on all of it.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamalamadingdong View Post
    But the best Rachel story is the one where Wolverine stabs her. That to me screams that she hasn't done anything of importance.
    Yeah, that's a great story! Definitely cements her place in X Canon. Plus she was one of the lead characters in Secret Wars 2, making her A list for anybody who started reading comics around that time. She had a much higher profile than Jean. Then she was starring for an extended run in the critically acclaimed Excalibur series which still stands up today. And End of Greys - amazing work by Claremont.

  11. #86
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamalamadingdong View Post
    But the best Rachel story is the one where Wolverine stabs her. That to me screams that she hasn't done anything of importance.
    Did you even read Excalibur? Everything she did in that series was tons better than that Wolverine incident (which is really just a footnote).
    Quote Originally Posted by Daithi View Post
    Well her origin is always going to be daughter of Scott and Jean (lets not get into that other discussion for a sec!) from the future. Other than she's basically a female Kyle Reese from Terminator.

    Honestly Cable has a far more convoluted origin. Born in the present, taken to the future by his half sister from a different future, raised by his parents from the present taken to the future, goes back to the past.
    Not just that, but all of that Maddie Madness needs to be mentioned to understand Cable. And then there's Stryfe, his clone...
    Last edited by The Black Guardian; 04-07-2012 at 05:55 PM.
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  12. #87
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    It should be also noted Rachel will be playing a part in this summer's blockbuster AvsX event. Jean won't as she's too dead and complicated.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meehl View Post
    They're making fun of you. It's funny that you think its defensiveness.

    OMG SO HI GUYS, LET'S TALK ABOUT BEAST. ISN'T BEAST RETARDED? LET'S HAVE AN OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW RETARDED BEAST IS. HE'S ALMOST AS BAD AND HANDICAPPED AS KITTY PRYDE, AND SHE'S JEWISH. I KNOW RIGHT? AS I'VE SAID, BEAST IS RETARDED AND YOU CAN'T DISPROVE THAT, SO THERE'S NO POINT IN DISAGREEING WITH ME. BUT LET'S DISCUSS IF YOU AGREE WITH ME. IT'S A REASONABLE QUESTION TO ASK, LOL.
    Act like an adult.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    Did you even read Excalibur? Everything she did in that series was tons better than that Wolverine incident (which is really just a footnote).
    Nothing of note happened in that story.

  15. #90
    Senior Member EXCELSIOR 2.0's Avatar
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    When I saw just the beginning part of the thread "Does Rachel Grey..." the first thing I thought was "Ugh, Does Rachel Grey really fucking matter? Nope!" And then saw what the title actually was....so I'm leaning towards nope.

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