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  1. #1
    Status Quo Cowards Thanos Classic's Avatar
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    Default Spider-Man With 2 Years Prep-Time Vs the Justice League

    In a story called "Two More Years", Spider-man will make a deal that will get his Soul sent over to DC Comics in Two years. There, he'll have to kill the BIG 7 Justice league members, which he'll be told make the avengers look like light weights. Hearing that, Spider-man will take the prep very seriously and upgrade himself in whatever way possible (magic, new powers, stealing stuff from people and trying to not get it taken back, etc. The one thing Spider-man can't do is ask/borrow things from people. He's got to be a villain about it...

    After the prep-time is over, Spider-man Aunt is saved and he gets sent over to DC. Over in DC, none of the heroes know Spider-man will be coming for them. Basically, he can take however long he wants and try to blend in all with the end goal of killing the justice league. Additionally, to give Spider-man a fighting chance, Peter is immune to all Telepathy or psychic probing/attacks.

    Right then, so can Spider-man do it?????
    l
    Batman should call Superman or Wonderwoman to put an end to Crime in Gotham Forever. It'd only take about 3 minutes...

  2. #2
    Elder Member Holacik's Avatar
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    No. I haven't seen anything prepwise that shows Spidey can increase his speed.

  3. #3
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Peter's pretty terrific science-wise, but I think people are going to have to actually start ponying up feats to prove he has any chance at all in this case.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holacik View Post
    No. I haven't seen anything prepwise that shows Spidey can increase his speed.
    If he has his current resource level (ie. Horizon Labs, which is more or less STAR Labs on 'roids):

    I don't see why he'd need to increase his speed. They don't know that he's coming for them, and it's not an arena fight - sneak attacks when each person is alone is totally OK in the scenario. 2 years prep time, with all the crazy stuff he's been pulling off recently (full-on invisibility, for example), should be MORE than enough.

    Flash - dude's a normal human with fairly normal senses - take a silenced shot at him when he's not paying attention at all or paying attention to someone else, and you probably get him. To say nothing of setting traps for him, something also well within the 2 years prep advantage for Peter. Set up a fake crime in his home town, complete with traps (flash-stuns, sonics, etc.) that start once Flash slows down, and he's meat.

    WW - Once again, trap or a sniper shot with a bladed web or something, and she's ribbons - no, it doesn't make sense, but DC needs a senseless weakness for its supers, and blades are hers.

    Superman - Surprise! Kryptonite!

    MM - Surprise! Firebombs!

    Batman - Just a flat out beatdown. Pete says, you know, this guy I can beat without cheating, and that small shred of honor left in my soul demands that I do that at least once in this sequence.

    Aquaman - Aquaman sucks. Kidding! But TP-proof Basic Pete could beat him - how is AM ever landing a hit on a pre-cog high-end BTer? TP-proof Pete in the armored stronger-than-Rhino suit he made to take out the Sinister Six stomps him bloody.

    Cyborg - Pete's got all kinds of insane EM damping webbing tricks now and has built sonic resistance recently as well, he should take this head-up thanks to the speed advantage and his new webbing tricks. Of course, the usual "snipe when not looking" will also do the trick, and with much less risk.

    I'd give Pete nearly 100% odds for doing it with Horizon-level resources. Only a catastrophe would stop him.

    Now, take away the Horizon Labs advantage (effectively unlimited access to high tech stuff), and it gets a lot more complicated. In 2 years he might be able to get far enough ingrained to get everything he needs in DC, but he might not. Maybe 50% chance? Much tougher.

  5. #5
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Flash - dude's a normal human with fairly normal senses - take a silenced shot at him when he's not paying attention at all or paying attention to someone else, and you probably get him. To say nothing of setting traps for him, something also well within the 2 years prep advantage for Peter. Set up a fake crime in his home town, complete with traps (flash-stuns, sonics, etc.) that start once Flash slows down, and he's meat.
    He tries that on old, Post-Crisis Flash, he's going to have a hard time. Flash has felt a sniper's bullet touch his back, wandered out of the way, checked out the bullet...

    He also woke up when where he was sleeping exploded and was out of the house and down the street before fully cognizent of what's going on around him.

    The thing to remember is that, high-end, Flash's unconcious reflexes operate on his 'oodles above lightspeed' levels.

    The question, really, is whether this is NuDC characters or not. Because 'surprise Kryptonite!' has been tried on Post-Crisis Superman a lot. :) And he doesn't just fold at the sight of it.

    Traps with blades and sniper rounds against Post-Crisis Wonderwoman? They don't cut her like butter, and she has operated perfectly well when taken by surprise, and fighting blind. Deflecting multiple bullets when blind, for example, from multiple angles.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    He tries that on old, Post-Crisis Flash, he's going to have a hard time. Flash has felt a sniper's bullet touch his back, wandered out of the way, checked out the bullet...

    He also woke up when where he was sleeping exploded and was out of the house and down the street before fully cognizent of what's going on around him.

    The thing to remember is that, high-end, Flash's unconcious reflexes operate on his 'oodles above lightspeed' levels.

    The question, really, is whether this is NuDC characters or not. Because 'surprise Kryptonite!' has been tried on Post-Crisis Superman a lot. :) And he doesn't just fold at the sight of it.

    Traps with blades and sniper rounds against Post-Crisis Wonderwoman? They don't cut her like butter, and she has operated perfectly well when taken by surprise, and fighting blind. Deflecting multiple bullets when blind, for example, from multiple angles.
    True to all of it, but we're not talking about a mook here with a colt and a ka-bar here - we're talking about a guy with access to adamantium and vibranium. Wonder Woman's not going to be too happy blocking Spidey's significant-fraction-of-light railgun with antarctic vibranium bullets - goodbye bracelets.

    And Spidey with prep against nU characters is a crazy stomp for Spidey.

    For PostCrisis - I'm talking about what a relatively high-end prep guy with off the hook resources (which Spidey has become) does against people who don't know he's there. Even with prep, he'd get stomped by the JLA in the arena, but this is not an arena battle. This is Spidey setting up his own scenarios, but he's still blood-lusted and PIS free. So he doesn't monologue, doesn't want to impress anyone, and doesn't even want financial gain - he just wants them dead by any means necessary.

    I actually spaced someone in the Big7 (Cyborg in new DC replaced MM, GL is still there): Even with prep, Spidey's going to have a hard time with GL's autoshields. Post-yellow-problem, GL doesn't have weaknesses nearly as exploitable. Pete would need to set up a massive energy drain or scenario where GL lost all of his ring's power and couldn't recharge or something.

  7. #7
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    True to all of it, but we're not talking about a mook here with a colt and a ka-bar here - we're talking about a guy with access to adamantium and vibranium. Wonder Woman's not going to be too happy blocking Spidey's significant-fraction-of-light railgun with antarctic vibranium bullets - goodbye bracelets.
    Where on earth is he getting this gun? And learning to use it so accurately? This is what's kind of bugging me. We're giving Peter a little much in the way of gimmes.

    For PostCrisis - I'm talking about what a relatively high-end prep guy with off the hook resources (which Spidey has become) does against people who don't know he's there. Even with prep, he'd get stomped by the JLA in the arena, but this is not an arena battle. This is Spidey setting up his own scenarios, but he's still blood-lusted and PIS free. So he doesn't monologue, doesn't want to impress anyone, and doesn't even want financial gain - he just wants them dead by any means necessary.
    Couple of points.

    1. He's not bloodlusted. It's a scenario, and doesn't assume bloodlust.
    2. There have be reasonable ways he could get access to stuff like 'Near-C railguns with vibranium bullets'. Which might not do so hot against Diana's bracelets anyway, due to them being magical. Thor's hammer doesn't exactly melt into goo when vibrainium comes near it. :)

    nU Dc, I'm not discussing. You're probably bang-on about them, but I don't know much about them. :) If that's the case in this thread, I'm going to just bow out - lack of knowledge is a pain.

  8. #8
    Power Corrupts Jabare's Avatar
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    Justice League in a stomp. Batmans 2 minute mid battle prep outweighs Peters 2 year prep.


    Heck even if Batman wasn't in this fight Justice LEague still wins with almost any roster. Peter will just have no answer for some characters


  9. #9
    Senior Member Howard Allan's Avatar
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    There is no vibranium anymore. It all was (Depowered?) It's plain Iron now.
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  10. #10
    Astral God Surtur's Avatar
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    A phrase involving the words snowball, hell, and chance comes to mind.

    All kidding aside, if Spiderman even manages to take out one member of the JLA, wouldn't that put the rest of them on alert? A big reason for him having any type of chance here is that the JLA don't know someone is after them. Even if he strikes once and then decides to wait many months until he strikes again, chances are he'd be caught long before then, even killing one member of the JLA would have pretty much a lot of superhumans on Earth on the lookout for him. His best bet is to try to take them out all at once, which is going to be incredibly difficult.
    Last edited by Surtur; 04-07-2012 at 09:02 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Allan View Post
    There is no vibranium anymore. It all was (Depowered?) It's plain Iron now.
    Nope - only Wakandan vibranium was depowered. Antarctic Vibranium is still around and kicking, and has been used by Peter since Doomwar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare
    Batmans 2 minute mid battle prep outweighs Peters 2 year prep.
    No, just no. You invalidate everything about your comment when you say something like that.

    Plus, where on Earth is Batman going to get 2 minutes alive against Spiderman, even unprepped? He literally won't last 2 seconds, much less 2 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies
    1. He's not bloodlusted. It's a scenario, and doesn't assume bloodlust.
    Actually, the entire scenario is "Spiderman has to kill the big 7", so the scenario itself sort of calls for bloodlust, doesn't it?

    Anyway, I'll bow out myself: I've got no real horse in this race, as it's soooooooooo far out of character for the antagonist of our story here. I just think that "JLA Stomps" in this case seems weird, since all of these people have been taken out on sneak attacks by people less good at prep AND at stealth than today's Peter, and none of them have 2 years of prep between appearances. I'm not saying that the JLA can't win, but 2 years of prep for Horizon Labs' SpiderPete is pretty ridiculous. In his spare time, over a month or so, he whipped up a suit of armor that boasts (theoretically - it doesn't have feats, but Pete says...) Rhino level strength and durability, immunity to Electro's and Mysterio's abilities, crazy extra web abilities, the ability to detect the Chameleon, all while not interfering with his base powerset. This was not over 2 years, this was spare time over perhaps a month or so - while he was also inventing all of the other crap he's been using as Spidey, PLUS new tech that is being used worldwide to deliver organs from donors to recipients, etc.

    He does NOT have feats for Flash level speed - even with prep. I think that only Reed has that. He doesn't have feats on the Richards/Doom level or the Pym/Stark level, but he's just a knotch below them, at most. And again, 2 years is a really long time to learn how to exploit vulnerabilities, especially on targets that have no idea you're after them.

    Again I'll point out:

    Even with prep, Pete's not winning an arena fight against the whole League, prep be damned, and he's going to have BIG trouble solo against all but Bats and Aquaman - who he wastes with the conditions of the scenario, even in the arena.

    But this isn't an arena fight. This is Pete knowing where his targets are and them not having the slightest idea that he even exists.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    A phrase involving the words snowball, hell, and chance comes to mind.

    All kidding aside, if Spiderman even manages to take out one member of the JLA, wouldn't that put the rest of them on alert? A big reason for him having any type of chance here is that the JLA don't know someone is after them. Even if he strikes once and then decides to wait many months until he strikes again, chances are he'd be caught long before then, even killing one member of the JLA would have pretty much a lot of superhumans on Earth on the lookout for him. His best bet is to try to take them out all at once, which is going to be incredibly difficult.
    I would actually submit that taking out one of them, in their local city, would be totally unrecognized as an attack on the league. Even two would be seen as luck. Nobody started screaming "they're coming for the league" when DD killed Supes.

  13. #13
    Senior Member greatmetropolitan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I would actually submit that taking out one of them, in their local city, would be totally unrecognized as an attack on the league. Even two would be seen as luck. Nobody started screaming "they're coming for the league" when DD killed Supes.
    That's because DD tore through the league first.


    Spiderman's only shot here is to take out most, if not all of the league in his opening shot. Unless he can neutralise a light speeder, a kryptonian, a Martian, an amazon and a GL with one shot, the others have enough speed and defences/resources to take him pretty quickly.
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  14. #14
    Astral God Surtur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I would actually submit that taking out one of them, in their local city, would be totally unrecognized as an attack on the league. Even two would be seen as luck. Nobody started screaming "they're coming for the league" when DD killed Supes.
    This is true, it would probably take 3-4 members taken out before they noticed something is up. The longer Batman survives, the more likely they are to figure out what is going on. Though it really wouldn't be hard for Peter to take out Bats unless he knows someone is after him and can get the JLA involved. Spiderman could just bitchslap him into a wall and be done with it. Since I'm assuming he's bloodlusted, he might even take out most of Bats rogues as well.
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  15. #15
    About that, I lied. The Transient Guest's Avatar
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    Two years eh.....

    Pete spends those two years studying the mystic arts with Doc Strange......the sciences with Reed Richards.....how to expand his senses with Stick....how to manipulate the power cosmic from Thanos.....how to be the best at what he does from Wolverine....how to come back from death Jean Grey.......

    Then once he makes it to the DC universe he sells his soul to Necron to undo everyone's parent's marriages ( the clay and the animating magic that would have made up Wonderwoman split up after the animating magic found the clay sleeping around with Plasticman ) thus killing them all.

    /Spider-thread, spider-thread, is over because I said it is. HEYYY THHHHEERRREEE, it's over spider-thread.
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