Axel-In-Charge - Apr 6, 2012

[anthony!]

I like this preview art, and I like most of the talent involved with this. I stopped following crossover events after Secret Invasion, so I'll be holding back and seeing how it all turns out.

Here's hoping it all makes for a nice Omnibus.... I'd rather read it all in one sitting.

[ian33407]

"We really dropped the ball in not having a "Pet X-Men Vs. Pet Avengers" comic. We probably could have sold, like, three hundred copies."

>> keep on listening the fans Axel

[CyberHubbs]

Pet Avengers didn't sell well as a series. I would have loved to see the concept done, but let's not act like it would have made money.

[jyeager11]

It's funny watching Axel try to sell us that he understands Cyclops' motivation in issuing the first strike, and would have done the same. Joe Quesada sang a similar song when it came to Tony Stark in Civil War. He swore up and down that Tony Stark would not be vilified in this series simply because he's going up against Marvel's "Mr Perfect" Captain America. And, well, we all know how that turned out.

It was clear from the moment they put Cap in the story that whoever was going up against him would be vilified somehow. Either by being the one to throw the first punch, or some other way. I was, unfortunately, not disappointed to see Cyclops strike at Cap first, when all Cap was doing up until that point was dialoguing. Well played, Marvel.

I don't care how you try to color it, it's all semantics at this point. Marvel is incapable of truly doing an impartial Side A vs Side B as long as Captain America is on one of those sides.

What if Cyclops hadn't fired that shot? We're to imagine Cap would have taken Hope into custody by force, and having to strike first. We're to imagine that, but Marvel will never let you actually see it.

Now, every shot Cap takes at the X-Men, he's only defending himself. Cyclops shot first.

Just like George Lucas insists Greedo did.

Cap just wanted to talk, right? No one knows for sure what would have happened next had Cyclops not fired that shot.

And that's how Marvel will ALWAYS play things out when Cap is involved.

[Wolf_Leader]

Just like George Lucas insists Greedo did.

Well, Star Wars fans consider Han a hero for shooting first. I'm a Star Wars fan.

[chastmastr]

Well, Star Wars fans consider Han a hero for shooting first. I'm a Star Wars fan.

Some Star Wars fans feel that way; not all, obviously.

[havok1977]

Anyone know of a "Vote for JRJR to retire" campaign? I'd gladly sign, I have endured his artwork on many Marvel books over the years and I'm wondering when I won't have to anymore.

Havent read AvX #1 yet, I just hope it will be a good and not-too-over-stretched event.

[Vivica Kang]

This event sounds cool...But these "ALL-STAR" writers are making Cyclops look like a insane person and it's not shocking it's just sick. I will be so glad when both (Cyclops and Wolverine) get their just desserts.

[jyeager11]

This event sounds cool...But these "ALL-STAR" writers are making Cyclops look like a insane person and it's not shocking it's just sick. I will be so glad when both (Cyclops and Wolverine) get their just desserts.

Anyone going up against Cap will be vilified by Marvel writers (see Stark, Tony circa Civil War).

For all their Hollywood envy, comic book writers just aren't at the level many Hollywood writers are when it comes to portraying characters that are more than 1-dimensional. Just think of all the personalities they managed to juggle on Lost. Everyone on that show was flawed in some way, and every character had its fans. Lost was an amazing demonstration of complex characterization handled by skilled minds. The same can be said of many HBO shows playing today.

Bendis, believe it or not, is one of my favorite comic book writers, because he at least TRIES to do the characterization thing and push it to more complex levels than where it's been in the past. AvX #0 is proof that he's at least trying. And I respect that.

But no comic book writer alive working for the Big 2 has been able to pull off the complex characterizations we regularly on hit TV dramas. When Sawyer went up again Jack on Lost, he wasn't automatically vilified. The writers played the 3-way love romance masterfully. They were all real people, with legit arguments.

When Marvel tries to stage similar "reality" good guy vs good guy conflicts, it can't help but vilify one of the sides... and put Cap on the other.

[Joe Acro]

For all this talk of vilifying Cyclops, or anyone who goes against Cap, I don't think that's necessarily true. I know a longtime Captain America fan--still considers him one of his top three favorite Marvel characters--and he thinks Cap is in the wrong here. He's on the X-Men's side.

And I think, just like with Civil War, there is that contingent of people who feel that way.

[Vivica Kang]

Anyone going up against Cap will be vilified by Marvel writers (see Stark, Tony circa Civil War).

For all their Hollywood envy, comic book writers just aren't at the level many Hollywood writers are when it comes to portraying characters that are more than 1-dimensional. Just think of all the personalities they managed to juggle on Lost. Everyone on that show was flawed in some way, and every character had its fans. Lost was an amazing demonstration of complex characterization handled by skilled minds. The same can be said of many HBO shows playing today.

Bendis, believe it or not, is one of my favorite comic book writers, because he at least TRIES to do the characterization thing and push it to more complex levels than where it's been in the past. AvX #0 is proof that he's at least trying. And I respect that.

But no comic book writer alive working for the Big 2 has been able to pull off the complex characterizations we regularly on hit TV dramas. When Sawyer went up again Jack on Lost, he wasn't automatically vilified. The writers played the 3-way love romance masterfully. They were all real people, with legit arguments.

When Marvel tries to stage similar "reality" good guy vs good guy conflicts, it can't help but vilify one of the sides... and put Cap on the other.

Quoted for truth!!

[jyeager11]

For all this talk of vilifying Cyclops, or anyone who goes against Cap, I don't think that's necessarily true. I know a longtime Captain America fan--still considers him one of his top three favorite Marvel characters--and he thinks Cap is in the wrong here. He's on the X-Men's side.

And I think, just like with Civil War, there is that contingent of people who feel that way.

Wow, really? You don't believe Iron Man was vilified during Civil War?

I was 100% behind the SRA, until I saw how Marvel portrayed everyone on that side. They insinuated that Stark lined his pockets via the Civil War, and Front Line kept quiet about it because the country needed the illusion that Stark was really a hero. They had Reed Richards alienate his family to the point where Susan -- always the perfect female archtype -- almost left him. They had Hank Pym who, let's face it, has never been on the right side of anything -- be it 666 Marvel or Ultimate. They even had the registration side employing super criminals, controlling them with nanobot technology.

Meanwhile, many of us who thought the SRA made sense were just facepalming at Marvel's treatment of the right, allowing their leftist politics to rule what would have otherwise been compelling reading. And the worst part is, I'm a liberal. A liberal who happened to agree with the right on this one subject, and was annoyed by how the liberals at Marvel couldn't keep their personal views away from this story. So if it's people like me you're quoting as being on the SRA side... know that we hated Stark and everyone on that side because Marvel wrote them to be hated. Despite our being fundamentally FOR the SRA.

So am I surprised Marvel wrote Cyclops as a lunatic throwing the first punch while Cap is simply trying to establish a dialogue? Not one bit.

Forget any pretense on Marvel's part that they themselves are divided on any issue... any time you want to know what Marvel writers really think, look at what side Cap and Spider-Man are on, and how they're behaving. You'll get a pretty good idea.

[Joe Acro]

Wow, really? You don't believe Iron Man was vilified during Civil War?

I didn't say that. I'm saying that there were a contingent of readers that took his side. Iron Man was much more vilified than Cyclops, largely due to revelations outside of the main event.

So far, all Cyclops has done is react (badly) to an arrogant, ignorant demand.

[jyeager11]

I didn't say that. I'm saying that there were a contingent of readers that took Iron Man's side.

Right, I was one of them. And hated how the writers vilified the character as the series progressed.

So far, all Cyclops has done is react (badly) to an arrogant, ignorant demand.

So you're saying the only thing Marvel has done to vilify Cyclops in this first issue is have him throw the first punch. How much more could Marvel have vilified the X-side in a first issue, other than establish who threw the first punch?

I take this to mean that you're expecting Marvel to balance things out more as the series progresses?

Good luck with that, because a whole bunch of us expected the same with regards to Stark during Civil War, and all it did was get much, much worse.

I'm not sure why you're expecting this to be any different than everything that came before it. Captain America, like Superman over at DC, is never going to be allowed to make a mistake. Whatever side either of these two characters is on is, in Marvel's eyes if not the fans', the right one.

[Joe Acro]

So you're saying the only thing Marvel has done to vilify Cyclops in this first issue is have him throw the first punch. How much more could Marvel have vilified the X-side in a first issue, other than establish who threw the first punch?

I don't think that vilifies him. Nor does it make him a villain.

I take this to mean that you're expecting Marvel to balance things out more as the series progresses?

I hope for a more equitable treatment this time 'round, but we'll see.

I'm not sure why you're expecting this to be any different than everything that came before it. Captain America, like Superman over at DC, is never going to be allowed to make a mistake. Whatever side either of these two characters is on is, in Marvel's eyes if not the fans', the right one.

Captain America is allowed to mistakes. As is Superman. They've both been called out on such things in past. There may not be an example of that within the past few months, but certainly within the past few years.