What beef do the Avengers have with the X-Men?

**earl** · 04-08-2012, 09:54 PM

I think it is easy to say that Cyke pretty much in a state of hubris. What do you want Cap to do? Put it in writing and have a lawyer bring it over?

C'mon...Summers advisers at this point are Magneto, the White Queen and Namor - yeah they usually get it right the first time, even worse Namor is shown to be the one going "yeah this don't look good".

Some of this is just funky storytelling, as I think Cap would probably look to Hank McCoy for some science knowledge on the Phoenix situation, but they used Wolverine, as he is the bigger star character and obvious to use as he 'broke off from the regular x-men, putting him in the middle'.

**R0NIN** · 04-09-2012, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by mikekerrIII

The problem is the Avengers are proven in pages in AvX #1 and the new NA preview to have little or no idea what they are facing and are increasing the risk to everyone by their actions becasue of that profound ignorance

And Cyclops thought the best way to inform them would be for Captain America to receive that knowledge by osmosis via Optic Blast?

**darkwolf** · 04-09-2012, 07:43 AM

Avengers -0 experience with the phoenix force

Cyclops- tons of experience with it

**DeadXMan** · 04-09-2012, 11:18 AM

uh Iron Man's has had dealings with PF
and Wolverine has just as much PF expireiance not to mention Best, and Carol during her Binary days.

**mikekerrIII** · 04-09-2012, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by R0NIN

And Cyclops thought the best way to inform them would be for Captain America to receive that knowledge by osmosis via Optic Blast?

Since Cap was insisting on endangering a kid and was incredulous when told a simple fact about the PF that seems a reasonable step.

**mikekerrIII** · 04-09-2012, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by DeadXMan

uh Iron Man's has had dealings with PF
and Wolverine has just as much PF expireiance not to mention Best, and Carol during her Binary days.

To bad the Stark obviously forgot everything he might have learned about the PF, Wolverine outright lied, and Carol for some reason didn't call Cap and Stark on their BS.

**R0NIN** · 04-11-2012, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by mikekerrIII

Since Cap was insisting on endangering a kid and was incredulous when told a simple fact about the PF that seems a reasonable step.

...WOW hypocrite much?
How was he endangering her again? Isn't that the whole the reason Wolverine split from Cyclops because Cyclops was deliberately using CHILDREN as soldiers?

**R0NIN** · 04-11-2012, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by darkwolf

Avengers -0 experience with the phoenix force

Cyclops- tons of experience with it

Avengers win track record versus PF 0 Wins 0 Losses
Cyclops win track record versus PF 0 Wins 1 bazillion Losses.

Gimme the guys with the fresh perspective and the track record for winning against impossible odds not the ones who already faced the PF and lost a star system and teammates to it. Not the guys who think that the spirit of destruction and rebirth is somehow going to be beneficial to the mutant race. What? The PF actually destroys something before replacing it? Whatever could that be? Yeah keep those guys away thanks.

**DurararaFTW** · 04-11-2012, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by R0NIN

Avengers win track record versus PF 0 Wins 0 Losses
Cyclops win track record versus PF 0 Wins 1 bazillion Losses.

Gimme the guys with the fresh perspective and the track record for winning against impossible odds not the ones who already faced the PF and lost a star system and teammates to it. Not the guys who think that the spirit of destruction and rebirth is somehow going to be beneficial to the mutant race. What? The PF actually destroys something before replacing it? Whatever could that be? Yeah keep those guys away thanks.

What are you talking about? Wolverine, Cyclops, Beast and Emma contained the Phoenix like four times in the Morrison era alone, no biggie. And Rachel has kept her Phoenix under control for years on end, before it escaped without doing any harm. And despite Wolverine saying the PF screwed Cyke out of his only chance at happiness, the first thing the Phoenix ever did was save Jean from a suicide mission. In fact I dunno what Wolverine's problem with Phoenix is. Last thing Jean did before she got saved by the Phoenix was express how much she hated Wolverine's guts. In the Outback Wolverine admitted that Phoenix Jean was only Jean he actually loved. Dark Phoenix is a different story, but this isn't Dark Phoenix we are talking about.

**Ebon Phantom** · 04-11-2012, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by R0NIN

...WOW hypocrite much?
How was he endangering her again? Isn't the reason WOlverine split from Cyclops because Cyclops was deliberately using CHILDREN as soldiers?

Isn't the whole reason why Wolverine was

No, Logan split because he didn't like the children being comfortable getting involved in the fighting. Scott wasn't deliberately using them, apart from Laura and the one time during Second Coming when he made everyone fight.

**Ebon Phantom** · 04-11-2012, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by R0NIN

Avengers win track record versus PF 0 Wins 0 Losses
Cyclops win track record versus PF 0 Wins 1 bazillion Losses.

Gimme the guys with the fresh perspective and the track record for winning against impossible odds not the ones who already faced the PF and lost a star system and teammates to it. Not the guys who think that the spirit of destruction and rebirth is somehow going to be beneficial to the mutant race. What? The PF actually destroys something before replacing it? Whatever could that be? Yeah keep those guys away thanks.

Shame you seem to be ignoring everything that came after the Dark Phoenix saga. Not to mention working towards Hope controlling it is a far more reasonable action then an outright suicide mission, which is what Steve stated confronting the Phoenix would be.

**Lady_Alternate** · 04-11-2012, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ebon Phantom

Shame you seem to be ignoring everything that came after the Dark Phoenix saga. Not to mention working towards Hope controlling it is a far more reasonable action then an outright suicide mission, which is what Steve stated confronting the Phoenix would be.

The "suicide mission" has already set off; it's why no-one on that team was at Utopia.

**R0NIN** · 04-11-2012, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ebon Phantom

No, Logan split because he didn't like the children being comfortable getting involved in the fighting. Scott wasn't deliberately using them, apart from Laura and the one time during Second Coming when he made everyone fight.

Oh it only happened with Laura and Second Coming so it doesn't count? Are you serious are you even listening to yourself?

**R0NIN** · 04-11-2012, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ebon Phantom

Shame you seem to be ignoring everything that came after the Dark Phoenix saga. Not to mention working towards Hope controlling it is a far more reasonable action then an outright suicide mission, which is what Steve stated confronting the Phoenix would be.

I'm not ignoring it but with the planet and all human life at stake I'm giving the failure to properly contain said force multiple times the more importance. Cause the planet and it's people can't afford for another little mess up like the annihilation of the star system. So yeah the biggest thing I'm counting is the Dark Phoenix and how the X-Men have yet to control the PF at all ......otherwise it wouldn't be coming destroying everything in it's wake in the process in the first place.

So you can say, "yeah they handled the $#!t atta that thing" all you want, meanwhile my reply is going to continue to be..."then why is it still coming destroying everything in it's path to get here?"